Baptism

[Guest tiggr]

So those two scriptures about being baptised for the remission of sins/ washing away of sins are pointless and have no meaning.

Thank you so much for clearing that up I now see that I should come to you for all knowledge of the truth since you seem to be able to tell us what is relevant and what is not even though is commanded in the Bible By Jesus Christ himself.

As far as works go James said the followinng

James 2:18

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works

James 2:20

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

As far as the original question there is an answer if we are willing to put aside our man made traditions and doctrines and seek the truth. It amazes me how so many can look down on others for seeking the truth when they themselves are happy to accept a form of doctrine that originated not by God but by man. If one were to study this out they could find where man began to change his thinking on the Bible and began to interject his own form of doctrine. There are several encyclopedias that show where things begin to change. One of the best ones is the catholic encyclopedia which tells of many changes that were brought about by the various popes and others. These changes are still observed today in many churches but yet they are not scriptural. There are answers if we are willing to get beyond what we have been taught by man and look to God

[endure4salvation]

2 Thessalonians 1:8,9

He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of His power.

Hebrews 5:9

And, once made perfect, He became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey Him.

1 John 2:3,4

We know that we have come to know Him if we obey His commands. The man who says, "I know Him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in Him.

Revelation 3:3

Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

Romans 1:5

Through Him and for His name's sake, we received grace and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith.

John 14:15

If you love Me, you will obey what I command.

John 15:10

If you obey My commands, you will remain in My love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in His love.

Acts 5:32

We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him.

I would like for someone to show me how we can disobey a direct commandment from Jesus Christ and still enter heaven, in light of these verses that clearly prove otherwise.

Baptism is a COMMAND from Jesus Christ, as clearly shown:

Matthew 28:18-19

Then Jesus came to them and said,

[Guest shiloh357]

So those two scriptures about being baptised for the remission of sins/ washing away of sins are pointless and have no meaning.

No, you are misapplying them. They do not say to be baptised for the remission of sins. That is only what part of the verse says. The call is for someone to believe on the Lord Jesus and repent. It is the blood of Jesus that washes away sins, not water. Furthermore, what do you do about the sins you have committed since you were saved? Do you go and get baptized everyday? You have sinned in the last year, have you not? If baptisim is what washes away sins, then I suppose you should have a baptismal afixed in your house to accomodate that.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works

James 2:20

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

James is talking about our works demonstrating our faith. It is our works that justify us in the sight of men. Our works such as baptism show the world what Jesus has done on the inside of us. Our works do not save us according to Eph. 2:8,9 and Romans 3:28. We are saved by faith apart from works. That is the whole point of Romans chap. 4. Abraham was not made righteous when he was circumcised, but many years before.

As far as the original question there is an answer if we are willing to put aside our man made traditions and doctrines and seek the truth. It amazes me how so many can look down on others for seeking the truth when they themselves are happy to accept a form of doctrine that originated not by God but by man. If one were to study this out they could find where man began to change his thinking on the Bible and began to interject his own form of doctrine. There are several encyclopedias that show where things begin to change. One of the best ones is the catholic encyclopedia which tells of many changes that were brought about by the various popes and others. These changes are still observed today in many churches but yet they are not scriptural. There are answers if we are willing to get beyond what we have been taught by man and look to God

It appears from this statement, that you already had your mind made up when you asked the original question, therefore honest debate would have been impossible anyway.

One other thing, I am not "looking down on you." I have been nothing but polite in this debate you are the one who is "looking down" on me, calling my beliefs false, and saying that I am just following the doctrine of man. You are the one who is becoming irate. Frankly, I do question your motives for starting this thread based upon your last post. Just because I do not see things the way you do, does not make me wrong, nor does it mean that I am following the doctrines of man.

[Guest shiloh357]

I would like for someone to show me how we can disobey a direct commandment from Jesus Christ and still enter heaven, in light of these verses that clearly prove otherwise.

Baptism is a COMMAND from Jesus Christ, as clearly shown:

There are over 1500 commands given by God to the Christian in the New Testament. Are you sure you have followed all of them? I mean if disobedience of commandments is enough to send you to hell, then I suppose we should all have a 1500 command checklist ready everyday. Better eat your Wheaties, because, first thing in the morning, you are going to have to hit the ground running; you have 1500 commandments to keep so that you don't go to Hell. Do you see how absurd this is? You go to Heaven based upon your faith in Christ. Salvation is by Christ, and Christ alone, not by works. Paul has been crystal clear on the subject.

[sagz4Christ]

Usually, Jake, and I could be wrong on this....it would be a great study anyway if this debate ever gets over.....

It is my understanding that when Jesus gave His disciples a command.....He told them....*HEY GUYS!!! LISTEN UP!!! THIS IS A COMMAND!* (of course..paraphrased)

Look at a few of the following....

Matthew 22

36 "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37 Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'[2] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[3] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

Mark 10:19

You know the commandments: 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, do not defraud, honor your father and mother.' "

John 13:34

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another."

John 14:15

"If you love me, you will obey what I command.

John 15:10

If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love.

John 15:12

My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.

John 15:14

You are my friends if you do what I command.

John 15:17

This is my command: Love each other.

John 18:11

Jesus commanded Peter, "Put your sword away! Shall I not drink the cup the Father has given me?"

Acts 1:4

On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: "Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about.

Unless I am reading this wrong......I will post more when I get back from Bible Study....I am WAYYYYYY LATE!!!!!

[Guest shiloh357]

Sags,

Jesus gave commands without saying "this is a command." He said such things as "Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in Heaven." Again, there are all kinds of commands that are not accompanied by a statement indicating that this is a command. Anytime you are told to do something in Scripture, that is a command.

[Guest tiggr]

No, you are misapplying them. They do not say to be baptised for the remission of sins. That is only what part of the verse says.

This comment was made refering to Acts 2:38 and Acts 22:16

Acts 2:38

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

KJV

Acts 22:16

16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

KJV

So only if the whole verse says for us to be baptised for the remission of sins then it would be something that we should do? But wait you said that they DO NOT say to be baptised for the remission of sins, how is that?

[endure4salvation]

Baptism is a work, and works do play any part in getting us saved.  (Eph. 2:8-9)

I would be interested as to see how baptism is a work. Can you provide a Scripture verse that says so?

I say that baptism cannot be a work because it requires someone else to do it for you.

(edited to include the below section)

Jesus gave commands without saying "this is a command." He said such things as "Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in Heaven." Again, there are all kinds of commands that are not accompanied by a statement indicating that this is a command. Anytime you are told to do something in Scripture, that is a command.

Please remember that Jesus spent 3 long years with his apostles and disciples. He instructed them day in and day out. The very last thing that Jesus ever said to these men was the Great Commission.

What did this include?

Matthew 28:18-19

Then Jesus came to them and said,

[Guest shiloh357]

So only if the whole verse says for us to be baptised for the remission of sins then it would be something that we should do? But wait you said that they DO NOT say to be baptised for the remission of sins, how is that?

So then, how do you explain Acts chapter 10 when those at Cornelious' house were saved and recieved the Spirit before they were baptized?

[endure4salvation]

So only if the whole verse says for us to be baptised for the remission of sins then it would be something that we should do? But wait you said that they DO NOT say to be baptised for the remission of sins, how is that?

So then, how do you explain Acts chapter 10 when those at Cornelious' house were saved and recieved the Spirit before they were baptized?

There are 48 verses in Acts 10, please show me a verse that specifically states that such were saved.

Many people had the Holy Spirit in the OT and yet were unsaved...Pharoh in Egypt, King Saul had Him until He left and a tormenting spirit came in its place....

This was a direct revelation from God via an angel, who are we to judge God and what He does?

Baptism is a DIRECT COMMAND from Jesus and He stated that nobody is going to heaven UNLESS they OBEY HIS COMMANDS.