Baptism

[Guest CatscanCam]

What consttutes being born of water, does a C- section count? If you read those scriptures again you will see that Jesus was not talking about natural birth. He said unless a man be born again he can not see the kingdom of God. (that denotes being born once already). When Nicodemus didnt understand Jesus goes into more deatail for him and explainsto him what it means to be born again. Unless a man be born of the water and of the Spirit he can not enter into the kingdom of God. Once agian Mark 16:16 he that beleiveth and is baptized shall be saved, how can any one say that Jesus does not mean for us to be baptized this scripture alone refutes that. Was Jesus just saying that for fun, was he making it up? NO.  If he said it then he meant it. We have taken what he has said and tried to find a way around it seems, and if my memory serves me right the Israelites did the same thing and lost out.

A general observation of the ministry of Jesus Christ reveals that He mentions baptism only once. He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. (Mark 16:15-16)

Here He says that "whoever believes and is baptized will be saved", if you were to stop reading here you would understand this to mean that in order to be saved you would have to be baptized. The verse does not stop there but goes on to say "but whoever does not believe will be condemned." So it is the believing or rather the lack of which condemns a person. Belief is the inward reception of Christ, and baptism is the outward testimony of that belief.

Yes a C-Section counts because you are in the water in the womb. I have accepted Jesus as my savior and I have also been baptized. I have no excuse to refute baptism. If I wasn't baptized then maybe I would have cause to in able to talk myself into the idea that I was saved even though I wasn't baptized. I have no reason to argue against it.

[Guest truth4today]

Matt 28:19

Robert :sleep:

[sagz4Christ]

Matt 28:19

Robert :sleep:

proof text?

point?

[Guest shiloh357]

Tiggr

Also if baptism is not important then I geuss what Jesus said in Mark 16:16 (he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved) was just something that he said to take up space? I think not, and as for the Book of Romans, all of the books in the New Testament from Romans through Jude are epistles that were written to either a church or to a specific person, these people had already obeyed the gospel of the Lord. They were not being told how to be saved but what they needed to do to stay that way. Matthew - John are the gospels, Acts shows the begining of the church and what took placed during that time.

Is not the gospel of Jesus Christ his death burial and resurrection

?

You are not quoting ALL of Mark:16:16. It also says "he who does not believe shall be condemned. There is no mention of baptism in the second part of that verse.

As far as Romans is concerned, Paul is telling them how they got saved, and yet he leaves out reminding them that they were baptized. Did he forget to tell them? Furthermore it wrong for you to assume that the only people who would hear the epistles or read them were going to be believers. Again, the Scriptures make clear what is necessary for salvation. Why didn't Jesus mention baptism in John 3:16,17? If it is necssary, then why does it not say that whosever believeth upon him AND is baptized shall not perish but have everlasting life. Again, baptism MUST be included in every verse about salvation if it salvation depends upon it.

[Guest Bunky]

It also never mentions that a person has to have the Spirit, but you have to have to enter heaven.

If in the beginning, when "the Church" was born (Acts 2:1-4) and we are told, in Acts 2:38, that we must "Repent, be baptized, in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and that we would receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost, why does anyone want to change the Word of God?

Bunky

[sagz4Christ]

It also never mentions that a person has to have the Spirit, but you have to have to enter heaven.

If in the beginning, when "the Church" was born (Acts 2:1-4) and we are told, in Acts 2:38, that we must "Repent, be baptized, in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and that we would receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost, why does anyone want to change the Word of God?

Bunky

Ahhh......

That's the missing link!!

And all this time I thought it was the Blood of Christ that we were to ask for for the remission of sin. I always thought it was Christ that forgave. But I see that what you are saying is that we need to be BAPTISED to have our sins forgiven............Then why did Christ die??

Could not that verse actually mean when we ask Christ into our lives, and ask Him to forgive us our sins....are we not baptized into Christ....in His name? Is not that what salvation does??

In Romans 6....when it says

1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

5 If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin-- 7 because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.

I suppose you take this to mean that Paul is talking about a physical baptism? Well, is not he actually talking about what happens when Christ becomes Lord in our lives? Is he not revealing the mystery of our salvation? When you asked Christ into your life, did you not die to sin? Were you not crucifying your old self with Him? If then you died when you were baptised (INTO CHRIST [salvation]) you died to sin, then will you not certainly also be untied with Him in His resurrection? Is this not why the Spirit of God is living in you? Because your old spirit died with Christ? we fight the Spirit living in us because we still have our sinful flesh, but our spirit has changed. It is Christ in me.....not myself...that is why Paul can say "I can do all things, but I will be mastered by none."

Baptism....water baptism as you are refering to here....is very important. It is publically proclaiming that you belong to Christ. It is physical evidence of what happened to you spiritually.

[Guest shiloh357]

It also never mentions that a person has to have the Spirit, but you have to have to enter heaven.

Romans does mention that we have the Holy Spirit, though. The indewlling of the Holy Spirit is not a subsequent experience to salvation, but rather it is the salvatin experience. When you ask Jesus to come into your heart, He does so in the person of the Holy Spirit. So, that is simply a given. Baptism is subsequent to asking Jesus into your heart. It is a physical work. Ephesians 2:8-9 says that we are NOT saved by works. This includes baptism. By trying to include baptism, you are saying that Jesus blood is not good enough. You are saying that God needs your help. Well, he doesnt. Salvation does not depend you. Salvation is Jesus plus zero. Salvation is not Jesus plus baptism. There are plenty of people who have been saved on their deathbeds. Did they go to hell? Or are you going to come up with some "exception" for them? If salvation is depends on baptism it has to be same for everyone, no exceptions. If you get saved, and two minutes later you die in a car accident before you could make to a baptismal, too bad. Fortunately, God does not operate that way. Romans tells us that "with the heart man believeth unto righteousness." (10:9) You are saved because of your faith, not because you are baptized. No one is saved by what they do.

If in the beginning, when "the Church" was born (Acts 2:1-4) and we are told, in Acts 2:38, that we must "Repent, be baptized, in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and that we would receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost, why does anyone want to change the Word of God?

We see in Acts 10:44-48 it says

While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. [45] And all the circumcised believers who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out upon the Gentiles also. [46] For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered, [47] "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?" [48] And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.

Here we see that people recieved the Spirit and had thus been saved prior to Baptism. This passage proves that salvation comes before baptism and not after it. If baptism were required for salvation, salvation and the gift of the Spirit would not have come until AFTER they were baptized. Thus, your interpretation of Acts 2:38 is incorrect.

[Guest Calamity]

I agree, Shiloh357. To add to the Acts 10:

[44] While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

[45] And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

[46] For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

[47] Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

[48] And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

There is also:

Mark.16

[16] He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Why doesn't it say " but he that believeth not and is not baptized, shall be damned?

Also, think I put this in another thread, but what about this:

1 Cor. 1

[14] I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

[15] Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.

[16] And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

[17] For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

If baptism was essential to salvation, how could Paul have said that?

Also, I do not believe that baptism is a part of the Gospel. According to this, the Gospel is basically the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ:

1Cor.15

[1] Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

[2] By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

[3] For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

[4] And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

He said nothing about baptism being part of the Gospel that he preached, that they received and were saved by. Nothing.

[Guest Bunky]

Since I've been on other boards discussing water baptism and it seems to accomplish nothing, let me post the explanation below. Possibly someone may see and believe!

If this is not convincing enough that water baptism is essential, then I don't know what else to tell anyone.

Bunky

by David K. Bernard

The Book of Acts establishes that the apostles and the

early church consistently baptized in the name of Jesus

Christ. This pattern is the norm for the church today.

It is our responsibility to obey the commands and

examples of the Bible regardless if whether we understand

the reasons for this practice or the importance of it[1].

Obedience is the only course open to us. [We may

question what authority deserves obedience, but ought to

recommend scripture, or the apostle's record where there

seems to be conflict with other powers (Romans 16:17, 2

Corinthians 2:17-3:1). The Lord Jesus ought to be made

Lord of our lives in our thoughts, values, beliefs and

practices.]

Baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is not an arbitrary

practice, however. Using the name of Jesus in baptism is

inextricably linked with the very purpose of baptism

itself. All the reasons for being baptized in water are

also reasons for invoking the name of Jesus at baptism.

If someone wishes to be baptized but refuses the

invocation of the name of Jesus, he has not fully grasped

the reasons why he should be baptized. Let us examine

these reasons.

1. As a minimum, all groups in Christendom agree that

the purpose of water baptism is to express faith in Jesus

as Lord and Savior. When the listeners on the day of

Pentecost accepted Jesus as Lord and Messiah, they were

baptized (Acts 2:36-38, 41). When the Samaritans

"believed Philip preaching ... concerning the kingdom of

God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized"

(Acts 8:12). When the disciples of John at Ephesus heard

that Jesus was the fulfillment of the prophecy of John

the Baptist, they were baptized (Acts 19:4-5). When the

Corinthians "believed on the Lord" they were baptized

(Acts 18:8).

The proper way to express faith in Jesus is to confess

His name. In each of the cases just cited, the candidates

expressed their faith in Jesus by being baptized in the

name of Jesus. (See Acts 2:38; 8:16; 19:5; 1Cor 1:13.)

2. Baptism is "for the remission of sins" (Acts 2:38),

or "to wash away ... sins" (Acts 22:16), and the name of

Jesus is the only name given for remission of sins.

"through his name whosoever believeth in him shall

receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:43). Thus the proper

way to seek remission of sins at baptism is to invoke the

name of Jesus in faith. Acts 2:38 and Acts 22:16 not only

connect the remission of sins with water baptism, but

they specifically connect remission of sins with water

baptism on the name of Jesus[2].

3. Baptism is part of our salvation experience (Mark

16:16; 1 Peter 3:21), and the name of Jesus is the only

name given for salvation. "Neither is there salvation in

any other: for there is none other name under heaven

given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).

(See also Acts 2:21; Romans 10:9, 13.) Thus the proper

way to integrate water baptism with the New Testament

salvation is to invoke the name of Jesus.

4. Baptism is a burial with Jesus Christ (Romans 6:4;

Colossians 2:12). The Spirit of God did not die for us;

only Jesus the man died for us and was buried in the

tomb. To be buried with Jesus Christ, we should be

baptized in His name.

5. Baptism is part of our personal identification with

Jesus Christ. "So many of us as were baptized into Jesus

Christ were baptized into his death" (Romans 6:3). "For

as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put

on Christ" (Gal 3:27). If we seek to be identified with

Him. we should take on his name.

6. Baptism is a part of the new birth by which we are

born again into the spiritual family of God (John 3:5;

Titus 3:5). We can also view the conversion experience,

of which baptism is a part, as an adoption into the

spiritual family of God (Romans 8:15-16). A newly born or

adapted child always takes on the name of his new family.

Since we seek to enter into the church of Jesus Christ,

which is called His body and His bride, we should take on

His name. (See Ephesians 5:23, 29-32.)

7. Baptism is part of our spiritual circumcision, or

initiation into the new covenant (Colossians 2:11-13).

Under the old covenant a male child officially received

his name at his physical circumcision. (see Luke 2:21.)

Water baptism is the time when our new family name is

invoked upon us at our spiritual circumcision.

In connection with the last two points, we know that

the identifying name of our new spiritual family is

Jesus, for at least two reasons. First, it is the only

name in which we can receive salvation. (See John 14:6;

Acts 4:12.) Second, it is the supreme name by which God

has chosen to reveal Himself to us. "Wherefore God hath

highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above

every name that at the name of Jesus every knee should

bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things

under the earth; and that every tongue should confess

that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the

Father" (Philippians 2:9-11).

Colossians 3:17 says "whatsoever ye do in word or deed,

do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to

God and the Father by him." This verse does not require

us to pronounce the name of Jesus orally before every

activity, but it deals with the attitude in which we

conduct every activity. All our words and actions should

be consistent with the invocation of Jesus as Lord. When

there is cause to invoke God's name formally, such as at

water baptism, which is both word and deed, this verse

applies in a specific way, telling us to approach God in

the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Just as we pray, lay

hands on the sick, and cast out demons in the name of

Jesus, so should we baptize in the name of Jesus. Using

the name of Jesus in the baptismal formula expresses

faith

in the person of Christ (who He really is);

the work of Christ (His death, burial, and

resurrection - or, the gospel);

the power and authority if Christ (His ability to

save us by Himself).

In short, baptism in the name of Jesus signifies that

we trust in Jesus alone as our Savior, and thus it

expresses the essence of saving faith. Since the only one

who can take away sins is Jesus- not by our deeds, not

the water, and not the preacher- we call upon Him in

faith, depending upon Him to do the work.

The Bible teaches that everyone should be baptized in

the name of Jesus Christ, and it reveals that every

reason for baptism is specifically a reason for baptism

in the name of Jesus. Thus baptism in the name of Jesus

demonstrates reverence for and obedience to the word of

God over and above human tradition, convenience or peer

pressure.

In view of the scriptural significance of the name of

Jesus, why would anyone refuse to be baptized in Jesus'

name ? Why would anyone hesitate to take on the name of

the one who died for us and to identify with publicly

with Him ? Why would anyone reject the only saving name,

the name that is above every name ?

[Guest shiloh357]

7. Baptism is part of our spiritual circumcision, or

initiation into the new covenant (Colossians 2:11-13).

Under the old covenant a male child officially received

his name at his physical circumcision. (see Luke 2:21.)

Water baptism is the time when our new family name is

invoked upon us at our spiritual circumcision.

I do not have time to commnet on this error-filled article other than this particular paragraph. Since he equates circumcision with water baptism, it is interesting to note that according to Romans four, the first man ever circumcised, Abraham was justified 25 years BEFORE he was circucised. Likewise we are justified before baptism. The author of this article needs to read Romans four.

Other than that, he commonly throughout his article confuses certain passages about the baptism of the Spirit with water baptism. His use of Co. 2:11-13 is just an example of such error. It is nothing personal, but this article fails on many points to prove that baptism in necessary for salvation.