Questions about healing

[St. John]

St. John,

This is very easy theology.

Sin=death and disease.

Sarx=flesh=part of this sinful broken diseased world under the curse of God.

Ergo.....you stop sinning....you stop dying...you would have no sarx and would live forever as Adam and Eve in the garden.

Did Christ  bear our disease on the cross.  Yes, he bore our sins...disease..death on the cross.  But our redemption is not complete.  Let me state that again, our redemption is not complete!

Will will be redeemed from sin, death and disease.  His body was the cost and the Holy Spirit is the guarantee.  But it has not happended yet.

This sarx is not the final summation of God's wonderful plan.  It puzzles me why some would want so many treasures here on the Earth.

End of soteriology 101.

- Steve

That is all very interesting, but let me ask you something.

Did Jesus heal the sick? YES. So, your analogy does not work. The redemption of our bodies is not complete, but that did not seem to bother Jesus did it? He healed the sick then and He still heals the sick today.

But just to make myself clear to you, Journey, and to Tatie, here is my advise below:

SHOULD I SEE A DOCTOR OR TAKE MEDICINE IF I AM BELIEVING GOD FOR HEALING?

Luke was a doctor (Col 4:14) and no one told him that his calling was sinful. Jesus said that the sick need a physician (Matt 9:12, Mark 2:17, Luke 5:31

). Doctors and medicine are not wrong. They are on God's side and he is on theirs. God wants you to get well, and the doctor wants you to get well. There is agreement there.

It is not doctors but ignorant religious Christians who will fight you on healing. No doctor in his right mind would sit there and tell you that your illness was the will of God for some reason, yet there are preachers who would! While the doctor is trying to heal you, the ignorant preacher will pray that you have "patience to endure the suffering which God has seen fit to lay on you" instead of laying hands on you for your recovery as he is plainly commanded to do in Scripture. If you are sick, you would be well advised to avoid anyone who calls himself a minister of the gospel who does not believe that it is the will of God to heal you.

Some people suppose that they are putting God on the spot, or somehow honoring him, by not going to a doctor or taking medicine. Neither is true. God is under no obligation to honor anything but faith. Just because you shun medical assistance or medicine does not mean that you are in faith. It may simply mean that you are being an idiot. This kind of thing brings a reproach on the teaching of divine healing in general, because scoffers love to point out cases of people who shun medical help and die. If you've believed you've received your healing, and are so sure that you will stake anything on it, great. If you have any doubts, you had better get whatever natural help is available to you. Don't gamble with your life.

If you are in faith, your use of medicine will not prevent that healing from manifesting. You have not turned your back on God or stopped trusting him just because you take a pill. Don't get all bound up over that. Just make sure that you maintain your stand of faith.

Also, there can be some time between the time you believe that you receive your healing and the manifestation of that healing. During this time, it is a good idea to take medicine to relieve the symptoms. If anything, it will make your stand of faith easier. Having your body screaming at you in pain because you won't take a pill for it may seem like "macho faith" (and go ahead, if that's what you want to do), but you may find that it's nicer not to suffer unnecessarily in the meantime.

Your use of medicine or doctors does not dishonor God in the least. If you are trusting him for your healing, it will manifest in your body anyway, and God will still get the glory for your healing. After all, in most cases, the medicines available cannot cure your condition anyway; they can simply relieve some of the suffering until you really get healed.

[godrulz]

Jesus came to destroy the work of sin and Satan. He did not come to affirm it as God's mysterious will.

Dr. Steve is right in that we will not be free from all disease and sickness until we are glorified at His coming. We live in a fallen world and are subject to viruses, etc. The ultimate stat is that 1/1 will die (unless He returns first).

There is a difference between faith and presumption. Prayer and healing comes from a relationship with God, not a formula. Healing cannot be reduced to a formula. We live in a complex world and there are no simple answers.

If it were me, I would seek God for healing (Jesus still heals supernaturally) AND seek out the best of medical help. I would trust in God and His Word, but also look to what medicine can do. It can be both/and, not either/or. This is not a lack of faith, but wisdom.

There is a possibility you will not be healed. We rest in the sovereignty of God. I would fight the disease in the name of Jesus believing it is not God's will for you to be sick and die until He tells you not to. You cannot do this alone. Surround yourself with godly counsel and loving believers.

[The Journey]

St John,

Nice post and great clarification.

Yes, Jesus did heal. Signs and wonders always accompanied new revelation. Its how God validates the message.

On the Boards we have seen the problem when there are no signs and wonders. We have had "members" post what they claimed was God giving new revelation. But there was no validation. God chose signs and wonders to validate the new revelation.

Hebrews 13:8 is often quoted to justify faith healing and other doctrines. Here is that verse in context from the NLT:

"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. So do not be attracted by strange, new ideas. Your spiritual strength comes from God's special favor, not from ceremonial rules about food, which don't help those who follow them."

A central issue that had developed in the early church was what to do with all the dirty Gentiles who were now worshipping in the synagogues. Many of the believing Jews began preaching a new gospel where faith and adherence to the law were necessary for salvation. Paul was reasurring his readers that nothing had changed in the gospel. Grace was the foundation of our covenant not law. Some jewish believers may have changed the message but Jesus had not changed.

This verse does not mean that somehow Jesus can never use His tools differently as the Church ages unfold. The Master's mission certainly changed as He first offered the Kingdom to the Jews and they rejected Him. The Body of Christ was then born on the day of Pentecost. So Jesus dealt differently with His people at different times according to His plan. To somehow put Christ in a box and demand he continue to heal and feed the masses with loaves and fishes is to read ones own private interpretation into Hebrews 13:8.

- Steve

[godrulz]

Heb. 13:8 is not a proof text for healing. A dispensational theology that relegates the supernatural God's acts to the first century only insults the dynamic work of the Spirit in our modern times. Healing and miracles still occur as attested to by 100s of millions in the Pentecostal/charismatic movement. He is the healer and continues to bring wholeness to our whole being. His power and love has not waned, and He continues to destroy the works of sin and the devil in every generation. This does not mean that every person will be healed always.

[jesusislord]

TATIE. BLESS YOU CHILD, YOU HAVE A SUPER SWEET SPIRIT..

Allow me to tell you about the last healing i had from the LORD.

I was living in south Texas at the time. i begun to get sick and sicker over a period of about a month.... I finally went to the doctor and she said i had the flu and was dehydrated...... this was on a friday and a few days later it was christmas........ on christmas eve...... my best friend came to my home to bring me some food for he knew i was sick........ and believe me i was...... he took me to the hospital my blood sugar was 790 which could put some people in to a coma.....

for the next year i took the medicine faithfully but after about six or seven months my blood sugar would drop extremely low.. it keep dropping lower and lower i cut back on my medicine and cut back at the doctors orders...... finally about christmas of the next year i quit the medicine al together...... that was two years ago.......... i usually eat what i want now and keep an eye on my blood sugar but it very rarely is above the limit of 140 so i dont worrry about.......

i know that the LORD HEALED ME.......

TATIE I HAVE PUT ON MY PRAER LIST AND SOME OF MY FRIENDS AROUND THE WORLD WILL BE PRAYING FOR YOU TOO..... MAY THE LORD BLESS YOU AND KEEP YOU.......

JESUS IS STILL ON THE THRONE AMEN

[Tatie]

Thank you, Jesusislord!

I don't care what they say

I am gonna be healed (made whole)

How and when is up to God

I will just pray and believe

And thank Him!

I will not be afraid I will die, and think

What if God don't want to heal me?

I know it's worse to be this way

Than to have no doubt

And be overconfident in God. (if that's possible)

"But without faith

it is impossible to please God"

So I will just keep pleasing Him!

[St. John]

Thank you, Jesusislord!

I don't care what they say

I am gonna be healed (made whole)

How and when is up to God

I will just pray and believe

And thank Him!

I will not be afraid I will die, and think

What if God don't want to heal me?

I know it's worse to be this way

Than to have no doubt

And be overconfident in God. (if that's possible)

"But without faith

it is impossible to please God"

So I will just keep pleasing Him!

That is a wonderful attitude, Tatie. No matter what, we who love and worship God, having Jesus as our Lord and Saviour, will meet together in His presence, and live eternally. That is an even better promise than God's promise to heal us. But like you say, keep pleasing God with your faith. I have been in circumstances where I was close to death. I know how hard it is to have faith sometimes. But faith comes by love the bible says. So I find the more I draw near to God and submit myself to Him, and love and adore Him and his healing word, the bigger my faith is.

[The Journey]

Thank you godrulz for two awesome posts.

And let me re-affirm as I have done many times that I have seen and do firmly believe that God continues to heal His people today!! God can choose to heal miraculously!!! God heals supernaturally today I have seen it happen!

Ok so I have stated that three times so my position is clear.

I am not a dispensationalist. But clearly as you look at the ebb and flow of history God has chosen to use signs and wonders to validate new revelation. Paul clearly states this in Hebrews. There have been segments of times when no revelation was given and the miraculous signs and wonders were absent or very rare.

We serve a miraculous God. But sometimes the power and the miracles come not by tornadoes, fire and wind but by a still small voice. Grace is a daily miracle that allows us to live free!!! Grace is when I walk with the Lord through the mundane details of daily life. This is where the power is. This is where the battle is. Not in some healing rally. Or in a prayer cloth. Or in some magical annointed oil that a "faith healing" millionaire will send me for a gift of $100.

- Steve

[St. John]

Tatie, below you will find a link and a description of an online book called Healing for Windows. This is the easiest to read book in it's layout I have ever come across. It has questions about healing and Objections to healing that you can click on and the answers pop up. Every question you could think of is there.

Please try it out. It has been a major blessing to me.

Healing for Windows Web Site

Jesus Christ provided physical healing for you when he bore your sicknesses and carried your pains at Calvary. You can receive healing from Jesus Christ NOW. Read Healing for Windows and find out how!

Download Healing for Windows Version 1.01

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Healing for Windows is a free hypertext cyberbook about receiving healing from Jesus Christ. This book tells you how YOU can receive the healing that Jesus Christ already paid for you to have.

It is the equivalent of a 1,600-page printed book, compressed into one 1.3-megabyte file called HEALING.HLP. You can just click on HEALING.HLP to run it. The file will not expand after you download it; the text decompresses itself as the program runs.

Healing for Windows contains annotated verses from the Old and New Testaments, 131 discussions about topics related to healing, answers to 80 questions about healing, and replies to 155 objections to receiving healing through faith in Jesus Christ.

You can have an interactive "chat" with the program about your healing, look up your ailment in Scripture, and browse a list of mistakes that can keep you from receiving the healing that Jesus Christ provided for you.

The book is all hypertext, so you can find what you want by clicking through a few screens with your mouse. You can search on dozens of keywords, copy any portion to the Clipboard, and browse items in a section sequentially.

This book will set you free from religious garbage. If you've been taught that sickness was Paul's thorn in the flesh, that you could be another Job, that God uses sickness for some higher purpose, or that God says NO or WAIT to some who come for healing, read this book and learn the truth!

You will learn that God does not makes exceptions "in his sovereignty." You'll find out that he never refuses to heal anyone who comes to him according to his instructions. YOU can be healed!

The book also contains instructions on how to be born again and baptized with the Holy Spirit. If you're not both of these, don't miss out any longer! Find out how YOU can be forgiven for ALL your sins and walk in the power of the Holy Spirit!

This book is compatible with all versions of Microsoft Windows, which is required to run it.

Once you download it, you can copy it and give it to all your friends. (Please do.) The book is copyrighted only to protect its contents. The book itself is FREE. You may reproduce it and give it to anyone on the earth, or off the earth, for that matter.

The book and this Web site do not, and will not, contain advertising or requests for money. This site and Healing for Windows were produced solely to help YOU receive healing from Jesus Christ the way people in the Bible did.

Note: Version 1.01 (dated 6/28/97) contains minor spelling, grammar and citation fixes from Version 1.00 (dated 5/22/97). There are no significant changes. There are no new topics and no doctrinal differences. Users of Version 1.00 need not upgrade unless they simply want the latest version.

Thank you for visiting the Healing for Windows Web Site!

[The Journey]

Jesus Christ provided physical healing for you when he bore your sicknesses and carried your pains at Calvary.

St John,

So we are to have no pain on this Earth? Am I understaing you correctly brother?

Steve