Possesion or Oppression?

[Floatingaxe]

The spirit was sent to "buffet" him. This buffeting is what oppression is. The term oppression when used properly is referring to just that. The major problem is most christians have never been taught about demonic obsession. The three levels of demonic activity are oppression, obsession, and possession. Paul was experiencing classic oppression. Most christians mistakingly use the term oppression where obsession should be used.

Please elaborate on obsession...

Demonic "obsession" is the middle phase between oppression and possession. During oppression, the person is resisting the attack of the enemy. Obsession is the phase where the person begins to welcome and accept the spirit. They lower their resistance to the spirit. They begin to become willing participant in the demonic activity. The person is still in control of their mind and body during obsession. When the individual loses body and mind control is where obsession turns to possession.

What, another word? Unbelievable! Demonic power can torment in any level of infiltration! It starts with disobedience to God, and becomes downright rebellion. Sometimes it happens out of ignorance of the truth about the principles of living for Jesus Christ. We don't need another word to compartmentalize demonic influence! I refute that completely.

[MeCajunboy]

Ok, here's the question. Can a Christian be possesed by an evil spirit. This is authentic Christianity I'm talking about, not just someone who says that they "believe" in God, even the demons do that. I'm talking about an individual who has the Holy Spirit, which is God Himself, indwelt within them?

I gave a sermon recently and made the statement that Christians cannot be possesed but they can be oppressed.

Give me your answer and reasons why. Please use scripture.

Thanks!

I believe a person can be in the "possession of either one." But the moment you acknowledge or sin, you lose God's grace from that moment until we repent and ask for forgiveness. At this point , you are acknowledging that you wish God to come and live within you and you will make all effort not to repeat that sin again....I don't think God is as dumb as we pretend to be sometimes, in that I mean that HE doesn't play game and HE knows what in our minds and heart and if you think you can "fool" God into believing that you're trying to do right and you actually already know that you're going to "smoke that dope" or fornicate again this weekend, Don't expect God to be with you while you're playing games....God's a better player than you or me!

Blessings

Cajunboy

[Live4Eternity]

Ok, here's the question. Can a Christian be possesed by an evil spirit. This is authentic Christianity I'm talking about, not just someone who says that they "believe" in God, even the demons do that. I'm talking about an individual who has the Holy Spirit, which is God Himself, indwelt within them?

I gave a sermon recently and made the statement that Christians cannot be possesed but they can be oppressed.

Give me your answer and reasons why. Please use scripture.

Thanks!

To understand this question fully, we have to get to the basics of what one means by the word "possesion". In almost every case it refers to "control" no where in the NT is the term "possesed" used in the Greek text to determine control from within. The word used in the Greek text is daimonizomai which means "to be demonized" and is the term used and means to be controlled from within. I won't stray too far off the main question but getting back to whether or not a Demon can "posses" take ownership of a believer, the answer is flat out No.

Going to the scriptures we first have Christ's victory at the cross over Demons (Col. 2:15) "And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it." The believer cannot be "Possesed" by a Demon because the believer is under the ownership of Christ and was purchased by the blood of Christ (1Cor. 6:20) "For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.".

All believers belong to God and Demons were defeated at the cross. They must yield to those that are in Christ.

However, if we get back to the term daimonizomai which is the term used in the Greek text we find it doesn't imply possession or ownership but "Control", then the answer changes to Yes. A believer can be controlled from within by a Demon (Acts 5:1-4).

"But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God."

The Holy Spirit must control from within and Satan is no different it also must control from within. (Emphasis on control not possession) Setting the distinction between a believer and an unbeliever, the unbeliever can be fully controlled by the Demon(s) where the believer can only be partially controlled. (Eph. 4:27)

"Neither give place to the devil."

Also Demonizing and exorcism isn't authentic Christianity but it is authentic Judaism. The religious leadership of Isarel were performing exorcisms already at the time of Christ's first coming, Christianity hadn't started yet...so if your Catholic...sorry Charlie! Exorcism came from the Jews too.

Opression and Obsession are just symptoms of Demonic control and or influence.

God does use demons for the spiritual growth of believers but it will be used from without and not from within, God used a demon to teach Paul humility (2Cor. 12:7) "And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure."

So having the Holy Spirit in us means we have taken part in the victory at the cross and the demon must yield to the believer but that victory can be offset for an individual when he/she submits to a demon and allows control willingly, in the same way a believer can willing fall to temptation and sin the same can be said about demonic control.

Peace

CJ

I agree on almost everything... it's the reference to Acts... you said,

" However, if we get back to the term daimonizomai which is the term used in the Greek text we find it doesn't imply possession or ownership but "Control", then the answer changes to Yes. A believer can be controlled from within by a Demon (Acts 5:1-4).

"But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God."

Now we have a situation that would seem to me that this person wasn't authentic in the first place. If he truly had the Holy Spirit in Him, he wouldn't have done that because the Holy Spirit guides and directs us.

God bless!

Edited December 26, 2006 by Live4Eternity

[Live4Eternity]

Also, this is taken from James 2. I do this not to say we recieve salvation by works, but that one who has the Holy Spirit in them, it is a natural byproduct of faith for deeds to be a way of life to them...

" 18But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.

19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that

[Live4Eternity]

I agree on almost everything... it's the reference to Acts... you said,

" However, if we get back to the term daimonizomai which is the term used in the Greek text we find it doesn't imply possession or ownership but "Control", then the answer changes to Yes. A believer can be controlled from within by a Demon (Acts 5:1-4).

"But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God."

Now we have a situation that would seem to me that this person wasn't authentic in the first place. If he truly had the Holy Spirit in Him, he wouldn't have done that because the Holy Spirit guides and directs us.

God bless!

Hi Live4Eternity,

I'll just clarify this from scripture as believers who were strong in the faith by going back to chapter 4. Peter said to Ananias in chapter 5 "why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost" Chapter 5 is in cadence with Chapter 4, where we find that the level of faith amongst these individuals was very strong, Acts 4: 32-35.

And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

This is why Peter strongly accused them of allowing Satan to lie to the Holy Ghost, they willingly submitted to him, Acts 5:1-4 is a prime example of Demonic control over a believer(s).

In Christ

CJ

Ok, I don't think that it clearly illlustrates this particular individuals devotion to The Way. But I'll put my interpretation of the Scripture aside.

My reasoning is this then... if this man was actually filled with Satan, then he let go of the Holy Spirit before Satan entered. thus, not a Christian, for he had denied the redemptive purposes that Christ accomplished for him.

My whole point here, is that some people teach we, as Christians possesed by the Holy Spirit, can be possesed (or taken control over) by an evil spirit. It is obvious to me, that if Ananias was filled with Satan, he wasn't filled with the Holy Spirit. So far, no one has been able to give reasonable answers that prove that a Christain can be possesed (not just influenced) by an evil spirit.

Thanks and God bless

[Live4Eternity]

Also, Paul says to the church of Ephesus

25"Now I know that none of you among whom I have gone about preaching the kingdom will ever see me again. 26Therefore, I declare to you today that I am innocent of the blood of all men. 27For I have not hesitated to proclaim to you the whole will of God. 28Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers.[a] Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. 29I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. 31So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.

This could have been the very case. So we really can't use that scripture for a reference as a believer (one who has been purchased by the blood of Christ, 1 Cor. 6:20) because it doesn't mention.

However, here is a scripture that sates an individual actually denying what God has done for them. And we know what a constant denial of God's grace is, right? That's blaspheme of the Holy Spirit, the only unforgivable sin. Here's the Scritpure:

2 Peter 2

The Rise of False Prophets

1But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.

So it states that we can turn away what has been given to us. But if we stay in Him, Jesus says:

27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30I and the Father are one."

So if I am in the Son's hand, I am in the Father's hand and no one can take me from His hand: for He is greater than all. If then, I can be possesed by an evil spirit while in the hand of Jesus, where's my assurance in Him? If I can be possesed by an evil spirit while in the hand of the Father, that's suggesting that the evil spirit is stronger than the hand of God. But if I say that I am secure in the hand of the Father, then my assurance rests with peace, knowing my salvation is in tact and unharmed. For God did not perform the work in Christ for my hope not to be secured in Him, but for my hope to be made perfect in Him. If my security can be taken by an evil, while at the same time having the power of the Holy Spirit in me, where is my hope and assurance of salvation? in works? By no means! For it is grace that saved me through faith. God forbid that I loose my faith. But if I have the Holy Spirit in me, indeed His power is in me also. And His power is more than enough to encourage my faith. So then it cannot be taken over by evil. The conclusion would have to be: the individual declines it or by some means reject it! And we say, "Who would ever want to do that?"

My point: If I can be controlled by evil spirits (or satan himself) while being purchased and possesed with the Holy Spirit, I have not a hope for the assurance of my salvation. But if my assurance rests in the power of the Holy Spirit in me, that was sealed in me (Eph. 4:30, 2 Tim. 2:19 NIV) (2 Cor. 1:22; Eph. 1:13; Eph. 4:30 NASB & KJV), I know my salvation is secure and my faith is all the greater.

Isaiah 54:14-17

14"In righteousness you will be established;

You will be far from oppression, for you will not fear;

And from terror, for it will not come near you.

15"If anyone fiercely assails you it will not be from Me.

Whoever assails you will fall because of you.

16"Behold, I Myself have created the smith who blows the fire of coals

And brings out a weapon for its work;

And I have created the destroyer to ruin.

17"No weapon that is formed against you will prosper;

And every tongue that accuses you in judgment you will condemn

This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD,

And their vindication is from Me," declares the LORD.

Amen and Amen!

[Floatingaxe]

I have seen people come to Christ and receive their salvation, only to discover later on as they start to grow in Him, that there were strongholds there. Jesus is the answer to those! He can wipe them out, by the power of the Holy Spirit. Right???

So, in the cases I have seen, these people were saved, born again, practising Christians. These oppressing spirits were already there beforehand. Jesus begins a new work in us when He is invited into our lives. It isn't totally cleaned up immediately in every believer's case!

Praise God for His Holy Spirit who takes on these strongholds, revealing them to us and enabling us to overcome! Amen. He is our refuge and strength, our Strong Tower!

[Live4Eternity]

I have seen people come to Christ and receive their salvation, only to discover later on as they start to grow in Him, that there were strongholds there. Jesus is the answer to those! He can wipe them out, by the power of the Holy Spirit. Right???

So, in the cases I have seen, these people were saved, born again, practising Christians. These oppressing spirits were already there beforehand. Jesus begins a new work in us when He is invited into our lives. It isn't totally cleaned up immediately in every believer's case!

Praise God for His Holy Spirit who takes on these strongholds, revealing them to us and enabling us to overcome! Amen. He is our refuge and strength, our Strong Tower!

Very true, we do go through a process of being refined and of being made holy. We do need work and God will complete the work He started in us. But just because I'm, say... a smoker when I become a Christian, doesn't mean that I have an evil spirit in me, it could be a lack of knowledge. Being imperfect and still needing breakthroughs in our lives doen't mean that we're possesed by evil spirits.

And Amen, He is our Strong Tower!

God bless!

[Floatingaxe]

I have seen people come to Christ and receive their salvation, only to discover later on as they start to grow in Him, that there were strongholds there. Jesus is the answer to those! He can wipe them out, by the power of the Holy Spirit. Right???

So, in the cases I have seen, these people were saved, born again, practising Christians. These oppressing spirits were already there beforehand. Jesus begins a new work in us when He is invited into our lives. It isn't totally cleaned up immediately in every believer's case!

Praise God for His Holy Spirit who takes on these strongholds, revealing them to us and enabling us to overcome! Amen. He is our refuge and strength, our Strong Tower!

Very true, we do go through a process of being refined and of being made holy. We do need work and God will complete the work He started in us. But just because I'm, say... a smoker when I become a Christian, doesn't mean that I have an evil spirit in me, it could be a lack of knowledge. Being imperfect and still needing breakthroughs in our lives doen't mean that we're possesed by evil spirits.

And Amen, He is our Strong Tower!

God bless!

Yes! I am not talking about smokers!

[Live4Eternity]

Ok, I don't think that it clearly illlustrates this particular individuals devotion to The Way. But I'll put my interpretation of the Scripture aside.

My reasoning is this then... if this man was actually filled with Satan, then he let go of the Holy Spirit before Satan entered. thus, not a Christian, for he had denied the redemptive purposes that Christ accomplished for him.

My whole point here, is that some people teach we, as Christians possesed by the Holy Spirit, can be possesed (or taken control over) by an evil spirit. It is obvious to me, that if Ananias was filled with Satan, he wasn't filled with the Holy Spirit. So far, no one has been able to give reasonable answers that prove that a Christain can be possesed (not just influenced) by an evil spirit.

Thanks and God bless

It's not that I am making an interpretation of my own, the scripture says what it says in chapter 4, they were all clearly strong believers according to the word of God.

The last few verses in Chapter 4 are clear, specifically verse 32.

32And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

It's not an interpretation lol, "the multitude of them believed and were of one soul" which means they were "In Christ" if they were in "one soul" I know we all like to pass judgment on those who do wrong doings but in this case you just have to trust in the word of God and it clearly demonstrates between chapter 4 and 5 that Ananias and his wife were part of this multitude but gave into the will of Satan. Thus Peter correctly identifies that they allowed Satan in.

So scripturally, a believer can submit to a demon or demonic control.

Blessings

CJ

Llike I said earlier, if this is the case, then Ananias had to turn away the Holy Spirit before Satan entered his heart. No where does it say that the Holy Spirit was still in him when he did this. Yes, he may have been part of the multitude, but that doesn't mean he was possesed with both Satan and the Holy Spirit upon his actions.