Christ's children

[billie]

I knew this thread would eventually get around to good ole "kephale"

oc

Doesn't it always?

[firehill]

God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, which are one are the head of God's children.

Did you read the whole thread, Butero? I've already responded at least a good some to whether or not the Trinity is the head of God's children.

What it means to be head of God's children is to be in authority over. The word head (kaphale) means the head, literal or figurative. In some places in scripture, it means a literal head, as is on one's body. In other places, such as 1 Corinthians 11:3, it means in a figurative sense. "But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." This would make no sense literally, so it has to be in a figurative sense. Here it is used to show a place of authority. According to the American Heritage Dictionary, one of the definitions of the word head is a leader, chief, the foremost position. That is what the word kaphale means in this instance.

I'll respond to this after we can come to agreement over whether or not the Trinity is the head.

OC & Billie, don't be shy to enter the discussion. The thread is actualy not long at all since most posts are short if you'd like to read them and get aquainted with this thread.

[Giaour]

The answer is all of the above.

God the Father of course as the creator of all.

Jesus because He is the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.

The Holy Spirit because He is our guide and we are led with God through Him.

When you speak of Christ, you are speaking of Christ as a man of flesh.

He was not flesh before God sent Him. Nor is He flesh NOW.

He was only flesh while on earth to live and teach and sacrifice Himself for our sins.

So, since the Father and Son and Holy spirit are one, we are the Children of all.

[Floatingaxe]

I can't believe this thread still exists!

[Giaour]

Musta slipped under the radar.

[firehill]

If it will make you feel better Firehill, I would be glad to simply say God is the head of the church, but since I am trinitarian, I still believe God is in 3 persons. If you dissagree with that, we will never come to agreement on the subject, no matter what your arguments may be.

God is not divine and human but Christ was fully human and divine therefore God is not Christ, but Christ is God.

I would express the Trinity as the ONE God is in three distinct characters or subsistences (for example God is not divine and fully human but Christ is) but not 'persons' since we are persons not God though the Word was incarnate as a person...God just is so much more than a 'person'...I'll assume then that we basicaly agree on the Trinity but differ on expression of it.

My question to Butero and Giaour is this: God is ONE though, God the Son, the Father, the Holy spirit are distinct from eachother no doubt therefore: Who is the head not a head or heads of God's children (aka, God's church, the church)?

'God is the head of the church.' So God is the head of the church (aka his children, the church) and Christ?

[firehill]

The answer is all of the above.

God the Father of course as the creator of all.

Jesus because He is the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.

The Holy Spirit because He is our guide and we are led with God through Him.

When you speak of Christ, you are speaking of Christ as a man of flesh.

He was not flesh before God sent Him. Nor is He flesh NOW.

He was only flesh while on earth to live and teach and sacrifice Himself for our sins.

So, since the Father and Son and Holy spirit are one, we are the Children of all.

The answer is not all the above.

We are specificaly God's children as written and always will be for He is our Father. God is the Father of Christ as Jesus claimed but we are not Christ's children because Christ is our Bridegroom and always will be our husband...and Christ is not our Father but God is.

My question for you is: Who's the head not a head or heads of God's children (aka, God's church, the church)?

[firehill]

Here is where the controversy seems to lie. When you look at the word kaphale, you see a physical head, and the definition is a head, literal or figurative. If it spoke of a physical head, there would be just one (except in the case of siamese twins of course). It would sit upon your shoulders. Since this definition doesn't work in the scriptures speaking of the husband being the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, we know it is used in the figurative sense.

Some like Richard Cervin say that Paul in Ephesians is speaking of a head/body methaphor which would seem to make sense except that we know that Christ's body spoken of by Paul in his other letters in reference to its members is a WHOLE body, i.e., ear, hand, foot, HEAD, etc. I agree then that it is used in a figurative sense but I don't believe Paul is speaking of a head/body metaphor.

[Giaour]

Did Jesus say He and the Father were one?

Did Jesus say He was equal to the Father?

[firehill]

Butero:It means authority. It is possible to have more than one person in authority over another. Let me give you an example. I work for a trucking company. I have many heads over me. There is my dispatcher. He is my immediate head. He has people over him, and they are also over me. In the spiritual sense, God is my head, whether it be God the Father who is on his throne in glory, his Son Jesus who is on his right hand, or the Holy Ghost who is in the world as our teacher and guide. As such, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost are our head in authority.

What you are saying is that God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are the heads of God