How can one Lose Everlasting Salvation?

[Guest shiloh357]

So, where is a passage that says "Once saved, always saved"? Guess you won't be the only one waiting with baited breath, huh?

There is no one single verse that says just that way but...,

True children of God are, according to the Scriptures, forever saved and eternally secure because:

1. They are born, again of incorruptible seed which yields the fruit of everlasting life (1 Peter 1:23).

2. They stand before God clothed in the imputed (credited) righteousness of Christ, and not in

their own (2 Corinthians 5:21; Romans 5:19-21).

3. His sheep have been given eternal life-they shall never perish (John 10:28).

4. Their eternal lives are forever hid with Christ in God (Colossians 3:1-3).

5. They are already seated in the heavenlies in Christ (Ephesians 1:3; 2:6).

6. The penalty for all their sin has been forever settled through the perfect and finished work of

the Lord Jesus Christ (Romans 4:23-5:2; 5:6-9).

7. Loss of reward at the Judgment Seat of Christ is certain for the careless Christians, but not

loss of salvation (1 Corinthians 3:10-15).

8. God faithfully chastens all of His children, even to the point of taking home those who

refuse their Heavenly Father's correction (Hebrews 12:6-11; 1 Corinthians 5:1-5; 11:28-32).

9. They have already been delivered from the wrath to come (1 Thessalonians 1:9,10; 5:8-10).

10. They are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption (Ephesians 4:30; Romans 8:23).

11. The Lord knoweth them that are His; false professors will be revealed as such at the

White Throne Judgment (2 Timothy 2:19; Revelation 20:11-15; Matthew 7:21-23).

12. God is the one Who has begun the good work in the believer, and He has promised to perform

it until the day of Jesus Christ; they are to "work out," not "work for" their salvation

(Philippians 1:6; 2:12,13).

13. They are already living stones in the spiritual building of God of which Christ Himself is the

Chief Cornerstone (1 Peter 2:5; Ephesians 2:20-22).

14. They are members of the Body of Christ, each with a peculiar function and without each one,

the Body would not be complete (1 Corinthians 12:12-27).

15. They are kept by the power of God, through faith, not through the efforts or the works of

the one who is saved. (1 Peter 1 :5).

16. Their incorruptible, everlasting inheritance is reserved for them by God (1 Peter 1 :1-4).

17. They are God the Father's irrevocable gift to God the Son (John 17:6,7).

18. Backsliding is a sin, but the blood of Jesus Christ, God's Son, cleanses us from all sin (1 John 1 :7-9)

19. He is able to save them to the uttermost because Christ "ever liveth to make intercession

for them" (Hebrews 7:25).

20. They are upon trusting Christ made "accepted in the Beloved" (Ephesians 1:6).

21. Nothing can separate them from the love of Christ (Romans 8:38-39).

22. By one offering He hath perfected forever them that are sanctified (Hebrews 10:10-14).

23. They cannot be unborn (John 3:6-8).

24. Christ dwelleth in them for ever (2 John 2).

25. No man can pluck the Christian out of His Father's hand, and that necessarily includes

the believer himself (John 10:29).

26. All who are justified are finally glorified-none are lost along the way (Romans 8:28-30).

27. In their flesh dwelleth no good thing; they are saved by grace (undeserved favor) and not

by their own works (Ephesians 2:8, 9).

28. The gifts and calling of God are without repentance; God will never annul His promise or cast

out those who have come unto Him through Christ (Romans 11:29; John 6:37; 17:2).

[Guest LadyC]

so, do we totally disregard these verses???

Romans 1

21 because that, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither gave thanks; but became vain in their reasonings, and their senseless heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves:

25 for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: for their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due.

28 And even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up unto a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting;

29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 backbiters, hateful to God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 without understanding, covenant-breakers, without natural affection, unmerciful:

32 who, knowing the ordinance of God, that they that practise such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but also consent with them that practise them.

here, let's disect that passage....

Romans 1

21 because that, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither gave thanks; but became vain in their reasonings, and their senseless heart was darkened.

Who's this passage written about? Those who already know God.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things.

their wisdom turns to foolishness and they trade the glory of God for idolatry. what is idolatry? it is putting anything else above God.

24 Wherefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves:

25 for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: for their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due.

God gave them up to the lusts of their hearts... Why? Because God gives us all free will to choose, and He will not force anyone to serve Him... even if they once did. if they change their minds, He is going to honor their choice! Pay close attention now, the scripture says they exchanged the truth of God for a lie!

28 And even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up unto a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting;

Did you catch that? They knew God, but refused to have God in their knowledge! So God gave them over to their own depravity.

29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 backbiters, hateful to God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 without understanding, covenant-breakers, without natural affection, unmerciful:

32 who, knowing the ordinance of God, that they that practise such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but also consent with them that practise them.

When we accept Christ as our savior, we have the gift of salvation. What we choose to do with that gift is up to us. God isn't an indian-giver (to coin an old phrase). He won't just arbitrarily take our salvation away because He doesn't change His mind.

But WE CAN!

our mothers gave you the gift of earthly life when we were born. but if we choose to commit suicide, there isn't anything she can do to stop you.

God, by giving His Son, gave us the gift of eternal life when we accepted Him as our savior. if we choose to commit spiritual suicide, it is our choice... we have that free will. God won't stop us. He will, however, do everything He can to woo us back to Him, until such time as our hearts have become so darkened, so unrepentant, that we no longer hear that wooing. The God gives us what we wanted... life without Him.

maybe this is an even better analogy:

our fathers gave us the gift of their names when we were born. like it or not, that name is ours, whether it's Smith or Jones or whatever. it wasn't a gift that dad had to give us, either. he didn't have to allow his name on our birth certificate, although it is standard proceedure if the parents are married. still, it is not legally required, particularly if the parents are not married. we can't just "lose" that name, it's ours. dad can't take it away from us no matter how angry we make him. but we have a choice as to whether or not to keep that name. if we don't want it, it's a trip to the nearest attorney's office and a few hundred bucks to throw that name away and get a new one.

when God grants us our gift of Salvation, it's ours. no matter how angry we make God, he can not take it away from us. we are now a part of His family, he is our spiritual Father, we have His "name". but if we choose to, we can exchange our "name", simply by deciding we don't want to know God any more. we don't even have to hire an attorney to file the papers for us.

so on the one hand, no... we can not "lose" our salvation. but we can darn sure throw it away.

i have two daughters. both accepted Christ when they were younger. one is in the midst of rebellion, but she still hears God wooing her. she still feels the conviction of the Holy Spirit. the other does not. she knew what she was doing when she accepted Christ, and she knew what she was doing when she got baptised. She also knew what she was doing when she chose to dive headfirst into the occult, and she knew darn well what she was saying when she told me "I don't care anymore, I don't want anything to do with God, and I don't care if I don't see heaven." If she were to die today, God would honor her choice, and she'd spend eternity in hell.

but God will also honor MY prayer, to spare her life until the day that she is willing to recieve the truth again, and make HIM her Lord and Savior.

[Guest LadyC]

for further study:

Jeremiah 17

12 A glorious high throne from the beginning is the place of our sanctuary.

13 O LORD, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living waters.

14 Heal me, O LORD, and I shall be healed; save me, and I shall be saved: for thou art my praise

those that forsake God, forsake the "fountain of living waters", will have their names written in the earth.

for

[Guest LadyC]

sorry, i'm kinda stuck on this topic now! i think it's because people aren't posting enough in other threads to draw my attention elsewhere LOL.

i found a site that explains the differences in the two doctrines. read through them, and see whether you agree with statements A or B. The fifth pair of statement reveals which statements are true of which doctrines. i'd bet there are a few people here who will be surprised at the results.

1.

A: God graciously enables every sinner to repent and believe, but He does not interfere with man's freedom. Each sinner possesses a free will, and his eternal destiny depends on how he uses it. Faith is man's act and precedes the new birth.

B: The sinner is dead, blind, and deaf to the things of God; his heart is deceitful and desperately corrupt. His will is not free, it is in bondage to his evil nature, therefore, he will not--indeed he cannot--choose good over evil in the spiritual realm.

2.

A: the sinner's choice of Christ, not God's choice of the sinner, is the ultimate cause of salvation.

B: God's choice of the sinner, not the sinner's choice of Christ, is the ultimate cause of salvation.

3.

A: Christ's redeeming work made it possible for everyone to be saved but did not actually secure the salvation of anyone. Although Christ died for all men and for every man, only those who believe on Him are saved.

B: Christ's redeeming work was intended to save the elect only and actually secured salvation for them. His death was a substitutionary endurance of the penalty of sin in the place of certain specified sinners.

4.

A: The Spirit calls inwardly all those who are called outwardly by the gospel invitation; He does all that He can to bring every sinner to salvation. Until the sinner responds, the Spirit cannot give life. God's grace, therefore, is not invincible; it can be, and often is, resisted and thwarted by man.

B: He is not limited in His work of applying salvation by man's will, nor is He dependent upon man's cooperation for success. The Spirit graciously causes the elect sinner to cooperate, to believe, to repent, to come freely and willingly to Christ. God's grace, therefore, is invincible; it never fails to result in the salvation of those to whom it is extended.

5.

A: Armenianism: One can "lose" (i.e. choose to reject) the gift of salvation.

B: Calvanism: Once saved, always saved, the person has forfieted his free will to choose.

[Guest ChosenOne]

Well, I believe that I cannot lose my salvation as long as I continue to follow God's laws. I have to live the way He wants me to, the way the Bible says to live. If I go out tomorrow and kill someone and never ask God for forgiveness for that sin then I believe that I would be damned to hell.

But what gives me joy is that I do not have a desire to go out and sin. God took that desire when He saved me. I ask for forgiveness daily for sins that I do not realize that I have commited. I do not want to take a chance with my salvation.

What do you think about Ezekial 18:26?

God bless.

Cheri

[Guest shiloh357]

Who's this passage written about? Those who already know God.

The passage is not a reference to those who have saving faith in Christ. Lots of unsaved people know who God is, and rebel against him and his standards.

So, the rest of your exegesis of this passage is built upon a faulty premise.

[Guest LadyC]

Well, I believe that I cannot lose my salvation as long as I continue to follow God's laws. I have to live the way He wants me to, the way the Bible says to live. If I go out tomorrow and kill someone and never ask God for forgiveness for that sin then I believe that I would be damned to hell.

But what gives me joy is that I do not have a desire to go out and sin. God took that desire when He saved me. I ask for forgiveness daily for sins that I do not realize that I have commited. I do not want to take a chance with my salvation.

What do you think about Ezekial 18:26?

God bless.

Cheri

Ezekiel 18

28 Because he considers all the offenses he has committed and turns away from them, he will surely live; he will not die.

i think that it means exactly what it says. but it does not say that one will not turn back to them.

by the way cheri, i had to correct number five of my previous post, i had labeled the wrong doctrinal name to the definitions. everything else was correct. since you were the only one on the board reading, you're the only one that my correction will affect!

[Guest shiloh357]

But what gives me joy is that I do not have a desire to go out and sin.

No Christian has the desire to go out and sin. In life, though, we all have situations where we react to things that we do not expect. Anyone can plan their actions. It is our reactions that we cannot plan. The question is what if you do sin? What if you lust or tell a lie, and then die before confessing it? Would you go to Hell? Why is it that those who believe that salvation can be lost always use the most extreme examples, such as murder, to make their point?

[Guest LadyC]

Who's this passage written about? Those who already know God.

The passage is not a reference to those who have saving faith in Christ. Lots of unsaved people know who God is, and rebel against him and his standards.

So, the rest of your exegesis of this passage is built upon a faulty premise.

shiloh, no, it is scripturally sound. it does not say those "knowing who God is", it says "those knowing God".

if i were to say you know President Bush, that means you know him personally. if i say you know who president bush is, it means you know about him, but do not have a personal relationship with him.

it also says they EXCHANGED the truth for a lie. you can't exchange something that you do not have.

it says God gave them up. to give something up means that you had it in your grasp.

There is nothing faulty about scripture. but to try to dismiss these scriptures as being about unbelievers when it is so explicit regarding being about believers is very faulty interpretation. in fact, it flat out dismisses God's own word.

[Guest LadyC]

But what gives me joy is that I do not have a desire to go out and sin.

No Christian has the desire to go out and sin. In life, though, we all have situations where we react to things that we do not expect. Anyone can plan their actions. It is our reactions that we cannot plan. The question is what if you do sin? What if you lust or tell a lie, and then die before confessing it? Would you go to Hell? Why is it that those who believe that salvation can be lost always use the most extreme examples, such as murder, to make their point?

so you believe that we have given up our free will, and that God no longer gives us free will? are you a robot?

i have a desire to live my life for God and not sin. do i still sin? yes. because God still gives me free will. i still have the free will to say a cussword when i'm mad, or to praise God in spite of my anger.

i do not have a desire to live for myself. yet i still sin. and so do you. you still have free will.

and at any time, you could choose to stop living for God. that doesn't mean you will, and it is highly unlikely that you will. but you still have that choice.

to answer your question though, what if we sin and then die before repenting, God knows our HEART. the instant you do something wrong, you either have a repentant heart, or a callous heart that doesn't care you've done wrong. if your heart is repentant, it doesn't matter if the words have time to form on your lips.

oh, and by the way... YOU were the one that used the extreme example. not me. in fact, everytime i've ever seen that argument raised, it was brought up as a defensive tactic by a once-saved-always-saved believer, never from one who believes that we have the choice to reject our salvation.