The Sign Of the Cross

[Iryssa]

If I may add. No particular posture or gesture was ever declared on how to pray. But the most common was to kneel indicating humility. Was not Jesus and others exemplary in this regard? Luke 22:39,41: John 11:41; Acts 9:36,40; 21:3-6

Are these Bible teachings or human traditions? You owe it to yourself and your family to be in position to answer these questions confidently and correctly. Check with your Bible, God

[Kansasdad]

Gee whiz, what incessant bafflegab making the rounds! Precisely which disciple, do you recall, who exclaimed, "And now herewith I make signage of the wooden cross"? I cannot recall the precise Scripture. Doesn't "In spirit and in truth" by Jesus himself say it best? Hmm.

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

I have tried to find such a verse and am not able to fine it?

[Floatingaxe]

Gee whiz, what incessant bafflegab making the rounds! Precisely which disciple, do you recall, who exclaimed, "And now herewith I make signage of the wooden cross"? I cannot recall the precise Scripture. Doesn't "In spirit and in truth" by Jesus himself say it best? Hmm.

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

I have tried to find such a verse and am not able to fine it?

He is referring to these:

John 4:23

But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.

John 4:24

God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.

We need no accoutrements to worship Him in thus fashion!

[EricH]

Hi Metro,

" We have positive evidence in the early Fathers that such a practice was familiar to Christians in the second century. "In all our travels and movements", says Tertullian (De cor. Mil., iii), "in all our coming in and going out, in putting of our shoes, at the bath, at the table, in lighting our candles, in lying down, in sitting down, whatever employment occupieth us, we mark our foreheads with the sign of the cross". (Catholic Encyclopedia)

It appears this is how the Sign of the Cross had it's beginning....as a small cross on the forehead. Thru the ages, it developed into the larger Sign of the Cross used today---touching the forehead, chest & shoulders.

It is an outward sign of devotion to Christ. The words, "In the Name of the Father, etc" are a means to dedicate whatever follows to God.

The Sign of the Cross also commemorates Baptism. It is a "mini" (if you will) re-dedication of ourself to Christ and a recognition that we live and move in Him, for the glory of the Father, thru the power of the Spirit.

All in all it is a beautiful reminder of the presence of God in every detail of our lives.

Peace,

Fiosh

That's beautiful Fiosh.

I don't understand why other religions don't do it.

They don't because it has been branded as a Catholic "thing", and many churches preach that everything Catholic is evil, therfore they will fervently reject it no matter what.

Please, please, please keep this nice. This accusation can fly both ways. Lets keep to the topic at hand and not get sectarian. Thank you

[Kansasdad]

Hi Metro,

" We have positive evidence in the early Fathers that such a practice was familiar to Christians in the second century. "In all our travels and movements", says Tertullian (De cor. Mil., iii), "in all our coming in and going out, in putting of our shoes, at the bath, at the table, in lighting our candles, in lying down, in sitting down, whatever employment occupieth us, we mark our foreheads with the sign of the cross". (Catholic Encyclopedia)

It appears this is how the Sign of the Cross had it's beginning....as a small cross on the forehead. Thru the ages, it developed into the larger Sign of the Cross used today---touching the forehead, chest & shoulders.

It is an outward sign of devotion to Christ. The words, "In the Name of the Father, etc" are a means to dedicate whatever follows to God.

The Sign of the Cross also commemorates Baptism. It is a "mini" (if you will) re-dedication of ourself to Christ and a recognition that we live and move in Him, for the glory of the Father, thru the power of the Spirit.

All in all it is a beautiful reminder of the presence of God in every detail of our lives.

Peace,

Fiosh

That's beautiful Fiosh.

I don't understand why other religions don't do it.

They don't because it has been branded as a Catholic "thing", and many churches preach that everything Catholic is evil, therfore they will fervently reject it no matter what.

Please, please, please keep this nice. This accusation can fly both ways. Lets keep to the topic at hand and not get sectarian. Thank you

It was just my opinion, It can be taken for what it is worth, my opinion. I still think it is true, and I think it was relevant to the discussion at hand. And yes on different subjects this can be true in reverse, but on this particular subject the prejudice runs in this particular direction. Sometimes if we are willing to recognise our biases we are more able to have a meaningful discussion. In my opinion, on this issue this bias exist and will cause difficulty in the discussion.

[Guest man]

I'm posting this again because I don't think it was read, or if it was, it was not addressed.

It is not even hinted at in scripture, and is an extra religious activity which has no value except to the feelings of security in the believer. We don't need any security but the full assurance of the promises of God in Christ Jesus.

Just because it's an "extra religious activity" doesn't automatically mean it's bad. Also, it does more than give those who practice it feelings of security...that MIGHT be a bi-product of it (but isn't even necessarily so), but first and foremost I think it's an expression of love and worship and respect. How does it have no value? How is any expression of our love for and devotion to God without value??

Do you really need a hand gesture to show love, worship and respect?

Can this not be accomplished without it?

How many people do you suppose cross themselves on a regular basis and don't even know why?

God searchs at the heart. He looks at the spiritual nature of our worship. He's not interested in our little ritual's. He wants our obedience, not little hand gestures that are suppose to reflect our obedience.

The crossing of ones self is a manmade tradition and should be treated as such. Traditions tend to bend the rules a bit and twist scripture to make those traditions seem right. But tradition is tradition and none of it has a place in the Kingdom of God.

With that being said...anyone is free to do what they please. I'm not here to say you can't do this. I'm not here to say you're going to hell if you do. I have no room to condemn anyone. What I think you should do is look into the matter. See what the bible says about tradition.

Like I said before, ( and I'm not pointing any fingers ) I equate this with idolatry. If you can't live without this gesture in your life then something is wrong.

This is just my opinion.

[Floatingaxe]

I'm posting this again because I don't think it was read, or if it was, it was not addressed.

It is not even hinted at in scripture, and is an extra religious activity which has no value except to the feelings of security in the believer. We don't need any security but the full assurance of the promises of God in Christ Jesus.

Just because it's an "extra religious activity" doesn't automatically mean it's bad. Also, it does more than give those who practice it feelings of security...that MIGHT be a bi-product of it (but isn't even necessarily so), but first and foremost I think it's an expression of love and worship and respect. How does it have no value? How is any expression of our love for and devotion to God without value??

Do you really need a hand gesture to show love, worship and respect?

Can this not be accomplished without it?

How many people do you suppose cross themselves on a regular basis and don't even know why?

God searchs at the heart. He looks at the spiritual nature of our worship. He's not interested in our little ritual's. He wants our obedience, not little hand gestures that are suppose to reflect our obedience.

The crossing of ones self is a manmade tradition and should be treated as such. Traditions tend to bend the rules a bit and twist scripture to make those traditions seem right. But tradition is tradition and none of it has a place in the Kingdom of God.

With that being said...anyone is free to do what they please. I'm not here to say you can't do this. I'm not here to say you're going to hell if you do. I have no room to condemn anyone. What I think you should do is look into the matter. See what the bible says about tradition.

Like I said before, ( and I'm not pointing any fingers ) I equate this with idolatry. If you can't live without this gesture in your life then something is wrong.

This is just my opinion.

Very good! I share your opinion.

[EricH]

In terms of things like this (i.e. things that are neither prescribed or forbidden by scripture), I think the attitude of the person doing it is a key consideration.

[Iryssa]

In terms of things like this (i.e. things that are neither prescribed or forbidden by scripture), I think the attitude of the person doing it is a key consideration.

EXACTLY.

And I can't think of a single place in the Bible where a tradition like this is said to be bad, evil, or wrong, or not something we should do. If someone knows of one, point it out to me, because I'm at a loss.

[Kansasdad]

In terms of things like this (i.e. things that are neither prescribed or forbidden by scripture), I think the attitude of the person doing it is a key consideration.

EXACTLY.

And I can't think of a single place in the Bible where a tradition like this is said to be bad, evil, or wrong, or not something we should do. If someone knows of one, point it out to me, because I'm at a loss.