Lent

[Iryssa]

Nah, it's no big...I've actually already touched on it when I said:

Several reasons...but I think the one that will concern you most is this one:

As much as it is the ideal that we do [practice dying to self] every day...how many actually do? We'd all like to be the good Christians that do it all the time...but to be honest, sometimes, I don't. Lent, however, is a time that brings me back...a time that reminds me to put self to death. It is an exercise over a relatively short period of time that TEACHES me to do it all the time. Putting to death self also takes different forms over our lives. The fasting of Lent is only one specific way of doing this.

That's why, to me, Lent is MORE than "just a religious exercise."

It's really been a time of renewal for me. I'm thinking more about God than I have been in recent months, and I'm spending more time in the Word and in praayer and meditation. There are more reminders around me...when I'm at the store looking at candy, I think "hey, it's Lent, you said you wouldn't" and then I go off on my brain's usual associative tangents; thinking about the scripture this morning's Lent Reflection (a podcast I'm subscribed to) was addressing (Matthew 5: 20-26...mostly I thought about leaving my offering if I think of something my brother has against me). Things like that.

[CaritateDei]

I am not aware of any priest who says, Hmmm that Methodist is not observing lent and therefore has committed mortal sin.

The real question is what would that priest say to one of his own parishoners who chose to not observe Lent, and to fast at another time?

I find it funny, Erich, how you want to keep this on the topic of lent and not the Roman Catholic Church, yet you keep bringing up the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church.

But AGAIN, I will repeat this.

What the Apostles hold binding on Christianity, we should all do, yes?

The Pope and the Bishops are the successors to the apostles, according to Catholic Tradition.

When the Pope and the Bishops hold BOUND that we should fast and abstain on Fridays during lent, and someone deliberately goes against that binding, that person therefore separates him or herself from that which he or she should be holding bound.

This goes against the Apostles. Being that it goes against the apostles, it goes against God. Why? Because Christ said so to the Apostles. Therefore, it is a grave sin to go against the COMMUNITY of the church and still claim to be Catholic.

So yes, it is a mortal sin if you are a Catholic and you deliberately go against that which is held bound on earth and in heaven by the PRECEPTS of the Church.

Lent is part of those precepts. Therefore, if you don't like observing the lent, and feel ousted because that puts sin on your soul, leave the church to feel better about yourself.

No,

Actually I did not want this to be about the Catholic church. But, there was some fuzziness here about whether Lent is just "helpful guidance" or mandatory. You have made it clear, it seems to me, that for the Catholic, Lent is mandatory, and not keeping it would be a mortal sin. (although KD seemed to be indicating that was not the case - that the church was just offering "guidance" and an "opportunity" to fast)

This ties to the original topic. No one here has an issue with fasting as prescribed by the bible. But since Lent itself is in no place prescribed in scripture, many of us here are uncomfortable here with making that specific observance mandatory in God's eyes and sinful if not adhered to.

But thanks for clearing that up for us in terms of what the church really teaches about it. I was confused as I was hearing some say it was a mortal sin, and some saying it was not.

Again, you talk about lent being non-scriptural, but the Gospel of John clearly states that what is held bound by the Apostles on Earth, is held bound in Heaven. Lukes Gospel tells us that going against the Apostles goes against Christ. Where is the beef, then, with obeying the rules brought by the Apostolic successors?

[CaritateDei]

Quoting the Bible alone as the basis of your entire faith...in my mind, makes God above us chuckle a bit. He has given us so much more knowledge and guidance through the greats of history. He has given us so much more knowledge through Science.

There is reward in the Good book. There are many other Good Books in my opinion that all Christians should read so that they do not make baseless comments support by one or two sentences in one book.

"To be steeped in history is to cease"...being ignorant.

Unless you have actually seen God chuckle, I would be cautions in speaking for Him in terms of HIs attitude towards the scriptures. You are correct that there are many good books. But only one is infallable, inerrant, and the very words of God. I read all kinds of books, but only one is authoritative, becasue it contains the very words of God.

But this is off topic. Back to Lent please

Then God contradicts himself, because the Bible is loaded with misconceptions and contradictions.

[Floatingaxe]

Where does it say they fasted every Friday in the Word of God? I really would like to know.

I am still waiting...

[Kansasdad]

Where does it say they fasted every Friday in the Word of God? I really would like to know.

I am still waiting...

Floating Axe, not all of history is contained in scripture. Just because it is not contained in scripture does not make it false.

[Kansasdad]

Okay, back to Lent it is. *grin*

I'm so glad it's Lent. It's really been a big help to me in my spiritual life so far this year.

I find lent a very special time as well. A time to re-connect, re-evaluate

God Bless,

K.D.

[Kansasdad]

I am not aware of any priest who says, Hmmm that Methodist is not observing lent and therefore has committed mortal sin.

The real question is what would that priest say to one of his own parishoners who chose to not observe Lent, and to fast at another time?

I find it funny, Erich, how you want to keep this on the topic of lent and not the Roman Catholic Church, yet you keep bringing up the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church.

But AGAIN, I will repeat this.

What the Apostles hold binding on Christianity, we should all do, yes?

The Pope and the Bishops are the successors to the apostles, according to Catholic Tradition.

When the Pope and the Bishops hold BOUND that we should fast and abstain on Fridays during lent, and someone deliberately goes against that binding, that person therefore separates him or herself from that which he or she should be holding bound.

This goes against the Apostles. Being that it goes against the apostles, it goes against God. Why? Because Christ said so to the Apostles. Therefore, it is a grave sin to go against the COMMUNITY of the church and still claim to be Catholic.

So yes, it is a mortal sin if you are a Catholic and you deliberately go against that which is held bound on earth and in heaven by the PRECEPTS of the Church.

Lent is part of those precepts. Therefore, if you don't like observing the lent, and feel ousted because that puts sin on your soul, leave the church to feel better about yourself.

No,

Actually I did not want this to be about the Catholic church. But, there was some fuzziness here about whether Lent is just "helpful guidance" or mandatory. You have made it clear, it seems to me, that for the Catholic, Lent is mandatory, and not keeping it would be a mortal sin. (although KD seemed to be indicating that was not the case - that the church was just offering "guidance" and an "opportunity" to fast)

This ties to the original topic. No one here has an issue with fasting as prescribed by the bible. But since Lent itself is in no place prescribed in scripture, many of us here are uncomfortable here with making that specific observance mandatory in God's eyes and sinful if not adhered to.

But thanks for clearing that up for us in terms of what the church really teaches about it. I was confused as I was hearing some say it was a mortal sin, and some saying it was not.

Actually Eric it is not just a simple yes or no question. If a person is a member of the Catholic Church and they are in active rebellion against the Church then yes they have put themselves in active rebellion against God, and this would be a mortal sin. If a person simply forgets, this is not the same thing and would not be considered a sin. I would advocate a little different solution though, if a person is a member of the Catholic Church and has difficulty with its obligations I would reccomend that they spend much time in prayer and visiting with a priest so that they can reconcile with the church and not leave it. Just think where we might be today if the "reformers" would have worked tirelessly, even to martodom, to transform the church as apposed to splitting it into thousands of pieces.

God Bless,

K.D.

[Floatingaxe]

if a person is a member of the Catholic Church and has difficulty with its obligations

So glad God doesn't place obligations like that on us. Any church that would is harbouring a religious spirit, and anyone who comes out from under its bondage to be free in Christ is--------free indeed!!

[Floatingaxe]

Where does it say they fasted every Friday in the Word of God? I really would like to know.

I am still waiting...

Floating Axe, not all of history is contained in scripture. Just because it is not contained in scripture does not make it false.

Yes it does. If it doesn't stand up to the Word of God, toss it aside.

[Fiosh]

Actually you might be surprised. Spiritual Formation is really being pushed in a lot of churches. People like Dallas Willard are doing a great job of giving people an biblical framework for the purpose of thinks like fasting and silence. I am currently teaching a Men's Bible study where we are looking at what the Bible has to say about the purpose of the Spritual Disciplines and the process of spiritual transformation in the life of the believer. I highly recommend Renovation of the heart. In it he describes the biblical process of spiritual transformation, the role of things like fasting in that process, and the mistakes people frequently make when thinking about things like fasting

Eric,

I believe you will find that those who attend your Bible study are not representative of most of the congregation. They are, almost by definition, the select few who are interested in delving more deeply into their understanding of Scripture and their relationship with Jesus. So, naturally, they would be more likely to try fasting.

If you take a poll of most congregations, I'll almost guarantee you that very few fast regularly.

Peace,

Fiosh