Security scanner can see through clothes

[Guest Biblicist]

I wonder if the people on those fateful planes of 9-11 would have appreciated a little more security such as this?

[Oh Hamburgers!]

Some of you scoff,because you are only thiniking of yourselves. The reason why WW1 &11 started was because there was no security measures like there are today. People were coming and going across borders with faked papers and the spy and counter spy became a joke.

That certaintly wasn't the only reason the world wars began. A lot of it also had to do with new technology, a puff of nationalism and sense of superiority from many of the newly advancing countries, and secret treaties. Political relations breaking down had a lot to do with it as well, as well as paranoia. I would not attribute the two bloodiest world wars of our history soley on border enforcement, although that may have had a little to do with it. This isn't about our past wars though, so I'll try to keep it on topic.

I wasn't suggesting that these camers were a deterrent to some one carrying a nuclear bomb on their person, grow up,but this next war if it hasn't already started, will not only involve nuke, but chemicals and the use of gases and so forth ans is as likely to be done from the inside as was the bombimgs in London which was carried by britsh born citizens.

you said:

On a more serious note, it appears some people are more concerned about having their precious civil rights being investigated than they are about a few million of their fellow citizens being nuked.

Does this mean that all of our rights are forfeit, because the possiblity of nuclear attack is there? There are plenty of ways to counter attacks on our soil without violating our rights and liberties as citizens. I would associate the situation with a simple playground scenario. Let's say there is snow outside, and you are a child on the playground throwing snowballs with your friends, and having lots of fun. But there is that one mean kid that throws an iceball, and makes another kid cry. When the teachers see it, and punish the child, NO ONE is allowed to throw snowballs afterwards, even if all the other kids were having fun and playing nice. The one mean kid ruined all the other kids fun because the teachers wanted to make sure no one got hurt.

Now, my example is stupid, but it represents the situation today. Just because a few "kids" are throwing "iceballs" and abusing the freedoms of our "playground" (or America), people are advocating banning the thowing of "snowballs" of all kinds (IE our rights as Americans). I don't think that's the best thing to do, because it ruins the freedoms this country was founded on. America stands for freedom, and if we let a few bad apples ruin the freedom of everyone else, they already won. I don't want to sound harsh, because I do feel for those who have died from terrorist attacks etc, but America wasn't founded to be "safe". It was founded to be a forum for people of all kinds to be able to do what they want as long as they don't infringe upon the rights of others.

Police can question citizens if they have just cause for doing so. I guess it depends what you mean when you say "acting suspicious". Do you mean just loitering around with shifty eyes, or do you mean wearing no shirt, "SATAN" written across your chest, running around screaming at people?

Now you are being facetious and childish again. Nobody cares what teeshirts you wear.

I was actually being serious. What do you consider "acting suspicious"? You mentioned you would be peeved if you weren't questioned for acting suspicious in public, and I wanted to know what you defined as "suspicious" behavior.

the construction of any deadly weaponry consisists of small enough components that would be easily suggled across borders if the security is slack. I f you think america is so big and strong and powerful and secure that it is unbeatable, you are very naive.

I completely agree, no manmade construct is unbeatable. In a way, that is my point. No matter what we do, no matter what security measures we institute, our enemies will be able to infiltrate our defenses, and will be able to do harm to our country if they are dedicated enough. I have no problem we being careful, and instituting measures that help protect the citizens of America, as long as they don't infringe upon our rights! I have said this a few times before, I DON'T have a huge issue with this specific scanner because it is a privacy violation, yet it is optional. If it was mandatory I would have a bit more of an issue with it. My fundamental issue is with the mindset that we can give up our rights as Americans in order to feel a bit more safe. I don't like that, nor do I think I will ever be comfortable with it.

Biblicist:

I wonder if the people on those fateful planes of 9-11 would have appreciated a little more security such as this? emot-questioned.gif

Didn't the terrorists of 9/11 take over the plane with box-cutters? It wasn't like they were using any super high-tech equipment, they were proving that if someone really wants to do harm to others, they can do it with pretty much anything if they set their minds to it.

[Guest man]

Buck

When was your last visit to The United States?

[Guest Biblicist]

Didn't the terrorists of 9/11 take over the plane with box-cutters? It wasn't like they were using any super high-tech equipment, they were proving that if someone really wants to do harm to others, they can do it with pretty much anything if they set their minds to it.

And something like a box cutter would show up on these types of scanner. How many people do you know carry a box cutter on their person at all times?

[buckthesystem]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/stor...c=ticker-103704

Security Scanner Can See Through Clothes

Friday February 23, 2007 11:01 PM

AP Photo AZET103, AZET104

By TERRY TANG

Associated Press Writer

PHOENIX (AP) - The Phoenix airport on Friday became the first in the United States to test new X-ray technology that can see through people's clothes and show the body's contours with blush-inducing clarity.

Critics have said the high-resolution images created by the ``backscatter'' technology are too invasive. But the Transportation Security Administration adjusted the equipment to make the image look something like a line drawing, while still detecting concealed weapons.

During the testing, the machine will be used only as a backup screening measure. Passengers who fail the standard screening with a metal detector will be able to choose between the new device or a pat-down search.

``It's 100 percent voluntary, so if the passenger doesn't feel comfortable with it, the passenger doesn't have to go through it,'' TSA spokesman Nico Melendez said.

Passengers selected for screening by the device are asked to stand in front of the closet-size X-ray unit with the palms of their hands facing out. Then they must turn around for a second screening from behind. The procedure takes about a minute.

``It seems faster. I'm not uncomfortable with it,'' said Kelsi Dunbar, 25, of Seattle, who chose the machine. ``I trust TSA, and I trust that they are definitely trying to make things go quickly and smoothly in the airport.

But one expert said the machine's altered image is ineffective, while the clear picture is an invasion of privacy.

``The more obscure they make the image, the more obscure the contraband, weapons and explosives,'' said Barry Steinhardt, director of the Technology and Liberty Project at the ACLU in Washington, D.C. ``The graphic image is a strip-search. You shouldn't have to be strip-searched to get on an airplane. Millions of Americans would regard them as pornographic.''

The machine will be tested for up to 90 days at a single checkpoint at Sky Harbor International Airport's largest terminal, which hosts US Airways and Southwest Airlines, the two busiest airlines in Phoenix.

The technology could be left in place after the trial period, and the TSA hopes to roll out similar machines at the Los Angeles airport and New York's Kennedy Airport by the end of the year.

The security officer who works with the passenger going through the screening will never see the images the machine produces. The pictures will be viewed by another officer about 50 feet away who will not see the passenger, the TSA said.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Just a few comments:

"

``It's 100 percent voluntary, so if the passenger doesn't feel comfortable with it, the passenger doesn't have to go through it,'' TSA spokesman Nico Melendez said"

Sure, voluntary: "Passengers who fail the standard screening with a metal detector will be able to choose between the new device or a pat-down search."

What kind of a choice is that to give someone??

And: ``The more obscure they make the image, the more obscure the contraband, weapons and explosives,'' said Barry Steinhardt, director of the Technology and Liberty Project at the ACLU in Washington, D.C. ``The graphic image is a strip-search. You shouldn't have to be strip-searched to get on an airplane. Millions of Americans would regard them as pornographic.''

So how long do you suppose it will remain that " the Transportation Security Administration adjusted the equipment to make the image look something like a line drawing".

Seriously I am wondering how long it will be before every traveller is required to go through this "scanner" as a matter of course.

A lot of Christians need to grow up and get over it. Throughout my life, I have been in locker rooms, showers, etc. I honestly do not care if another man sees me without clothes on. I certainly do not care if they see a scan of my body through the clothes I have on. What is the big problem? It amazes me how trivial of things get get Christians upset today. I say I would rather get scanned or felt on, than fight someone on the plane who got a weapon on board.

I have seen pictures of these x-rays, and they are very intrusive. I am all for security, but I do believe these scanners go too far, and would imagine that it will discourage many from flying.

Good, they can drive then. People should grow up and get over their vanity or whatever their problem is.

Stay off aircraft OR come to realize we're in World War 3! Better see-thru scanning than death by Muslim mass-homicide bombers, right?

GOD BLESS THE USA!

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

That would normally have been my view as well, but have you actually seen how a person is shown while walking through these things? I understand the reasoning behind them, but still think they go too far.

I honestly would not care If I had to walk naked through the thing. Why do men care if other men see them naked? Why do women care if other women see them naked? Did yall not grow up playing sports, going to camp, lifting weights, and taking showers after P.E?

Great! You don't care about how other people might feel about this at all, just how you could cope with it! Wonderful attitude!

You're making a big assumption here. You are assuming that the "scanner operator" and the person whose job it is to check the x-rays will be a "man". They could just as probably be a woman, or a gay man, or a lesbian woman. Either way they are a bureaucrat, and why should you have to parade naked before a bureaucrat?

And do you really believe it is for your "safety"? Yeah, suuurre it is!

[Guest Biblicist]

Did anyone hear the TRUE story about the bus full of elderly people that thwarted a robbery attempt.

Apparently three guys tried to rob a bus load of elderly people. One of which happened to be a [i think] 70 year old, retired military man. He grabbed one of the guys, put him in a headlock, breaking his clavical and suffocating him in the process. No charges will be filed. They were acting in self defence. I think the other two guys were picked up not to far away!

Do whatever it takes to defend yourself.

[buckthesystem]

Some of you people are sooooo gullible. You believe any old ridiculous story that anyone you consider to be "in authority" will tell you.

"We are demanding all your credit card details - it is for your own safety and to combat terrorism"

"Give us your fingerprints - it is for your own safety and to combat terrorism"

"let us check your digital image against the criminal database - it is for your own safety and to combat terrorism"

"Let us take away your traditional right to security from unreasonable search and seizure - it is for your own safety and to combat terrorism"

"Let us take away your right to Habeas Corpus - it is for your own safety and to combat terrorism"

"Give us a sample of your DNA (no matter that this is really something that your should discuss with your whole family as they share most of your DNA) - it is for your own safety and to combat terrorism"

"Let us eavesdrop on all your communications without getting a warrant - it is for your own safety and to combat terrorism"

"Let us issue you with a 'real id card' (which is really a 'licence to live, and proves you belong to the state as a slave) - it is for your own safety and to combat terrorism"

And finally: "Here, take this implantable subdermal microchip in your right hand or in your forehead - it is for your own safety and to combat terrorism"

Once you say "yes" to any of these things, and genuinely believe that "it is for your own safety and to combat terrorism" you have "stepped onto the slippery slope".

Enjoy the water in the pot slowly heating up and say "hullo" to all the other frogs, it will soon be too late to get out of the pot.

[sweetycakes]

Some of you people are sooooo gullible. You believe any old ridiculous story that anyone you consider to be "in authority" will tell you.

"We are demanding all your credit card details - it is for your own safety and to combat terrorism"

"Give us your fingerprints - it is for your own safety and to combat terrorism"

"let us check your digital image against the criminal database - it is for your own safety and to combat terrorism"

"Let us take away your traditional right to security from unreasonable search and seizure - it is for your own safety and to combat terrorism"

"Let us take away your right to Habeas Corpus - it is for your own safety and to combat terrorism"

"Give us a sample of your DNA (no matter that this is really something that your should discuss with your whole family as they share most of your DNA) - it is for your own safety and to combat terrorism"

"Let us eavesdrop on all your communications without getting a warrant - it is for your own safety and to combat terrorism"

"Let us issue you with a 'real id card' (which is really a 'licence to live, and proves you belong to the state as a slave) - it is for your own safety and to combat terrorism"

And finally: "Here, take this implantable subdermal microchip in your right hand or in your forehead - it is for your own safety and to combat terrorism"

Once you say "yes" to any of these things, and genuinely believe that "it is for your own safety and to combat terrorism" you have "stepped onto the slippery slope".

Enjoy the water in the pot slowly heating up and say "hullo" to all the other frogs, it will soon be too late to get out of the pot.

I agree, Buck.

Whether a person subscribes to the popular conspiracy theories or not, I think we could probably all agree on a few basic points:

- Any advanced technology such as those described can be used for either good or evil, as has been shown in the past.

- Since most Christians are of the opinion that we are either in, or approaching, the end times, it would be wise to bear in mind the warnings about some kind of Anti-Christ world government which will be set up on the end times, in order to control every human being.

I think that generally we ignore these things at our peril.

The end-times will be the most troublesome and dangerous times in human history, from my reading of the bible.

It is at the very least wise to explore the dangers of such things.

[Guest man]

Buck

When was your last visit to The United States?

[WarMonkeyMan]

Oh please yall...

If they're using X-rays, they can't see your body. In real life, X-ray vision penetrates skin. It doesn't stop at clothes, unless you happen to LIKE lead-lined boxers.

And really, I feel confident enough about my physique not to care whether someone is seeing my x-ray body.