jesussaves Posted December 28, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 210 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,144 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/14/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 28, 2003 When my children were teens I loved to take them to Christian concerts at various large public halls or theaters or stadiums. It was great to fellowship and listen to the Lord's music and have the church gathered as a witness to sinners all around or perhaps take a young person with the hope they would give their heart to Jesus. Soft drinks, popcorn and hotdogs were nice treats. Not long ago I was thrilled to invite some friends to a large church that was having a concert with well known Christian singers. I was so glad to be able to take them...but my heart sank when the concert began. People were mulling all around, drinks in hand, goodies to eat being passed, the Church platform now resembled a concert stage with all the lighting and parafinalia. At intermission I sat in my seat and prayed for the Lord to move on the hearts of those there. Others were compelled to go buy this or that. Where was the Lord in all this? Was the Church resorting to market place tactics to earn a few dollars? I decided then and there to not buy or sell in the house of the Lord anymore. It is His house of prayer. It is a place to be held in highest honor. Never did Jesus get so angry as when people were using the house of the Lord for monitary gain. The Church is not a stadium. Do you think I am being legalistic? (retorical question) "And they came to Jerusalem and Jesus went into the temple and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and over threw the tables of the money changers, and the seats of them that sold doves." "And He would not allow that any man should carry any vessel through the temple." "And He taught saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations a house of prayer? but you have made it a den of thieves." Mark 11: 15-17 KJV (I looked this up in 6 other translations. The wording is basically exact.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGR Posted December 28, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 512 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 8,601 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/16/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/04/1973 Share Posted December 28, 2003 Good post! I started a thread up in Controversy about the commercialization of Christianity. It's so nice to see that I'm not the only one who thinks that Christianity is becoming to commercialized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AbelaJohnB Posted December 28, 2003 Share Posted December 28, 2003 I think you are right-on! The church is the house of the Lord. It is a place of fellowship between HIM and mankind. Yes, we all are own own temples, but the temple of GOD is the local church building. We are commissioned to keep our own temple clean and pure. We should likewise do the same for the Temple of God. However, we must also ask ourselves 'to what purpose -can- the Temple of GOD be used for?' I'd like to be able to throw a lot of scripture at you from the Old Testament, but we see in the NT that the 'veil was ripped'. While this is typically seen as symbolic of the door between man and GOD being united again (was in existent in garden of Eden until the fall) and many other symbolic meanings, I feel it would not be inappropriate to also think that the veil being torn in two could be a sign of the Temple (than Solomon) being opened to the moving of GOD into the mass of the people, rather than only within the temple. I guess what I'm getting at is that Calvary has brought about a new type of temple. One that is not really described within the pages of Scripture. While we could go to exo-biblical text, we should not take those as "doctrine". This leaves us with the previous point. We must rely on the moving of GOD (Spirit) to speak to each member of the local church about what is right and what is wrong, to take place in the Temple GOD has given them to oversee, in my opinion. Unlike the OT, we do not have "laws" that govern the operation of the local temple. Yes, we can (and perhaps should) base our operation of the local temple on the OT, but we cannot use them as 'laws' as was previously the case. That aside, I will say I'm on the -extreme- side of this issue, personally. While I believe the above is the best course of action on a biblical stance, I would personally never allow anything that is not considered part of your 'normal service' as exceptable. I know many people feel that Christian concerts are 'worship' or 'outreaches', but I find it hard to except that. Do I have to pay to get in? That's not biblical. Do I have to pay for cookies and coffee? That's not biblical. Do I hear the word of GOD being presented? Because that is Biblical for every gathering together of the Saints. Do we see a time of heart-honest outreach to expand the Kingdom of GOD through invitation to join the family of GOD? I can only hope so! Just my own thoughts on this. :bg: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGR Posted December 28, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 512 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 8,601 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/16/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/04/1973 Share Posted December 28, 2003 Very good thoughts. BTW, welcome to the boards. Received your PM and, at your humble suggestion, trimmed down the signature. I've redone my sig several times tonight and felt it was too much and I got confirmation that it was! God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted December 29, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.92 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted December 29, 2003 A belated welcome to the Boards, AbelaJohnB! I am continually impressed by your words and the expression of them. Now, to get on topic . . . The one thing about this topic that is amusing is that we know that we are now the Temple of God, that the building we call church is just a building that the Church gathers in. "A house of prayer for the nations"? How many churches are truly used for that purpose? Now another question comes - does it matter what building the concert took place in? Should Christian concerts be such as you described - in any building? Would the buying and selling of sodas and t-shirts and popcorn and all that have been less offensive if the concert took place in a stadium or community rec center? Is it OK for Christian concerts to behave "secularly" in secular places? Or should they be something completely different than what you described no matter where they take place? Hmm, that is the question. . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller Posted December 29, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 827 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 12,101 Content Per Day: 1.49 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 04/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted December 29, 2003 And an excellent question it is Neb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted December 29, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 455 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/28/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted December 29, 2003 I think we need not overlook the significance of a saint being the temple of the Holy Spirit. And all are preist. WE are the church wherever we go! I no longer "go to church". WE are the temple of God, as we are indwelt with Him, His presence should be a light from us. The NT pattern for assembly life shows us the way to meet. Why change that? I hold NO buildings as sacred. Neither did the Apostles. Neither does Jesus. Matt 18:20....."For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them." In case you don't know I have come out from the institutional "corporation" church with the red brick buildings and all that material trapping. The man-made clergy/laiety division which is not in accordance with scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adstar Posted December 29, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,399 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,307 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted December 29, 2003 Amen CWJ we are together here All praise the Ancient of Days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesussaves Posted December 29, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 210 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,144 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/14/2003 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 29, 2003 I am glad to see so many responses. While it is true we are the Temple of the Holy Spirit and we do very much need to take care of these Temples and keep them holy before the Lord, Jesus made a really big deal of the Lords house of prayer becoming like a market place. He also has much to say about the church in the Book of Revelation. The only Church He did not repremand was the Church at Philidelphia. That is the Church I hope we all strive to be a part of, as individuals and a corporate body. I believe very strongly that when people assemble together to worship the Lord in designated places of worship, that if we honor holy ground and reverence His presence that He will do great and mighty things in our midst and people will take it out to the streets to win the lost will renewed zeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted December 29, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.92 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted December 29, 2003 Jesus made a really big deal of the Lords house of prayer becoming like a market place. He also has much to say about the church in the Book of Revelation. The only Church He did not repremand was the Church at Philidelphia. Just wanted to bring a comment and a correction. Comment: There's a big difference between the Temple and our church buildings! That isn't to say anything about considering or treating them as sacred, though. Correction: He didn't reprimand the Church at Sardis (the persecuted church), either. (Yup! We really, really want to be more like the Church at Philadelphia! ) : runs before getting pelted with a pie : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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