Students suspended for praying

[Giaour]

Cajun,

The coins were a mis-print. They were a mistake that got past the inspections.

The new coins have been fixed.

[Oh Hamburgers!]

"Discipline was leveled last week after students ignored repeated orders to move their prayer circle from the busy student commons in the Heritage core, said Assistant Superintendent Bill Bentley.

A few other students had complained, and the days-old group had become a physical obstacle and a disruption, he said.

"

That's all I needed to see.

Regardless of if their method was theologically correct or not (I don't think they did it in the right way), constitutionally they should be allowed to do it. A school commons ground is a place where students can gather to talk, share the days latest gossip, or anything else. If they were "in the way," then all other students who are not praying must be moved as well for they might be in the way. The fact is, according to the Constitution, these students should be able to meet there so long as other students are allowed to meet there.

As soon as you walk into a school however, you lose an awful lot of your rights. You can be searched, your stuff can be searched, you can be punished for disruption (violation of freedom of speech), and safety measures can be taken if necessary, you aren't allowed to leave unless given permission etc etc. There are still rules for common areas, it isn't a free-for-all.

Considering that the common area is still an area for all students, it is important to respect the other people's rights. According to the article there were complaints, and the students were an obstruction to the common area. They were asked repeatedly to move their circle, but did not. I mean, all things point to the fact that these students weren't suspended because they were praying, they were suspended because they were being an obstruction and distraction to other students, AND they refused to comply with the administration when asked to move. If they were suspended because they were praying, that is of course unacceptable, but that wasn't why they were suspended based on how I see it.

[apothanein kerdos]

As soon as you walk into a school however, you lose an awful lot of your rights.

No you don't. The "rights" you mentioned are not rights mentioned in the Constitution. I can't think of the name, but in the 1960's there was a case where the Supreme Court ruled that students do not give up their right to free speech/expression once they enter a high school. This has been upheld since then. Don't debate the law with me either Hamburgers.

Considering that the common area is still an area for all students, it is important to respect the other people's rights. According to the article there were complaints, and the students were an obstruction to the common area. They were asked repeatedly to move their circle, but did not.

It doesn't matter if is bothers some students or if they get in the way. The law is the law. They have the right to assemble there so long as other students have that right too.

You're not going to win this debate Hamburgers. At some point I'll start quoting from the SC decisions.

[sierra21]

It doesn't matter if is bothers some students or if they get in the way. The law is the law. They have the right to assemble there so long as other students have that right too.

AK have you been inside a school during class changes? I'm inside a busy university everyday and I have to say its complete chaos. On the odd occassion someone slows down or stops and it gets completely backed up. Theres nothing more annoying than being late for a class and being stuck behind someone thats chatting on her cell and barely moving!

This is pretty much the same situation in high schools.

Theres just no reason for them to have to gather in the hallways. It's a busy place and they could just as easily gather in an empty classroom or whatever. It has nothing to do with rights, it has everything to do with common decency and respect for those around them.

[Oh Hamburgers!]

To say you have the same rights in school as you do anywhere else is simply untrue. Many schools do not allow swear words, or drug/alcohol references on clothing. Many public schools do not have dress codes, but there are times where people will be required to change if things are too over the top. You can't create a stir in a classroom and express your free speech rights if a teacher is attempting to teach or test, you can be suspended for repeated disobeyance of the authority figures in the school, even if you are just standing up out of turn and talking about Jesus, or anything. There ARE limitations in school to the things you can do and the things you can't do which are not the same limitations outside of school.

And if the prayer circle was obstructing students, or making it so that they can't concentrate on their studies, or do whatever it is they wanted to do in the first place, the circle was violating their rights to use the public place as much as the next student. It seems this prayer circle was making it hard for other students to enjoy the public area, and once you violate the rights of others, you lose your right to do whatever it is you were doing that violated others in the first place.

[apothanein kerdos]

AK have you been inside a school during class changes? I'm inside a busy university everyday and I have to say its complete chaos. On the odd occassion someone slows down or stops and it gets completely backed up. Theres nothing more annoying than being late for a class and being stuck behind someone thats chatting on her cell and barely moving!

This is pretty much the same situation in high schools.

It doesn't matter. The law is the law.

To say you have the same rights in school as you do anywhere else is simply untrue.

So when the Court in Tinker v Des Moines said: "students do not shed their constitutional rights when they enter the schoolhouse door" they were kidding? Or are you saying that they are wrong, even though this decision has been upheld since it was stated?

Who is right Hamburgers. You or the Supreme Court?

[In The Presence Of The King]

I am half half on the issue. They do have the right to pray anywhere they please, BUT after being asked to move they should have. It's not that they were being discriminated against, but that they were in the way. They could have found an empty classroom or something. They could have gone somewhere else, but being in a High School Hallway is a bit ridiculous. I go to a Christian High School, and we have very busy busy hallways and we don't have as many students as there may be in a public school. I could easily see how students at my school would get detention for being in the middle of the hall just for prayer. There are a plethara of other not in the way places. I understand that they were being lights for Christ, but I consider prayer sacred, and somehow the middle of a hallway in a public school doesn't seem fit to communicate with the Holy of Holies, but hey that's just me.

In Christ's Service,

Jacob Williams AKA In The Presence Of The King or ITPOTK.

[apothanein kerdos]

Right, they should have moved according to Christian ethics. Likewise, they shouldn't have even prayed in public, again, according to Christian ethic.

This, however, does not negate that the law allows for them to do what they were doing. If they were forcing people to pray with them, or being disruptive (inciting violence), then it would be wrong. However, it is akin to having a regular group of students standing around chatting. Those students are not asked to move, thus these students cannot be asked to move either.

[In The Presence Of The King]

Right, they should have moved according to Christian ethics. Likewise, they shouldn't have even prayed in public, again, according to Christian ethic.

This, however, does not negate that the law allows for them to do what they were doing. If they were forcing people to pray with them, or being disruptive (inciting violence), then it would be wrong. However, it is akin to having a regular group of students standing around chatting. Those students are not asked to move, thus these students cannot be asked to move either.

oh well see at my school which is what I base my opinion on is that if your in the middle of a hallway doing anything your asked to move. We have 700 kids traversing the halls, and a group standing around for whatever reason is a disruption. I know that my friend's school does that as well and he goes to a public school. His school has 2000 students. They cannot have people standing in the middle of the hall. If you are asked to move it is because of disruption (at least it is where i come from) otherwise people just leave you alone.

[Emily~Anne]

I know there were at least eleven students. Visualize 11 students all holding hands in a circle. That would be taking up too much room it seems. Seems a simple matter of courtesy to do anything that could get in the way of others foot traffic in an out of the way spot. But then I think, what is the 'Commons' area? Is it more like a hallway or a room? Did the students make any effort to be out of the way, or did they cop a defensive atttude about it? And then another thought, wouldn't the 'Commons' area be quite a bit noisier than a classroom set aside for praying? Why not choose the quieter classroom?