Postmodernis...The Emerging Church

[Floatingaxe]

There have been many 40-day journeys and fasts that churches and individuals have undergone to bring people into deeper devotion to Christ. Nothing wrong with that. It is a method, yes, but it is a biblically sound thing.

Try it. You will bless God, and you yourself will be blessed.

Again, this is using pragmatism. What if God has not called someone to a 40 day journey? Just because He has called some does not mean He has called all, or that it is prescriptive (again, all texts that deal with it are descriptive).

I have many friends that came to Christ, or gained a deeper understanding of Christ, by using LSD. Some saw Jesus and He told them to stop. Others had an experience while doing it that what they were doing was wrong...yet all of them used LSD and came to a deeper understanding of Christ. Is it then justifiable for me to use LSD as long as I am trying to gain a deeper understanding of Christ?

Of course God isn't calling us all to do a 40-day fast.

The LSD comments are needless tripe, and not fit for Worthy readers. No one is going to come to Christ from the influence of Satanic drug use.

Can I use LSD to get closer to God since it works for other people?

It doesn't work for other people.

I have many friends that came to Christ, or gained a deeper understanding of Christ, by using LSD. Some saw Jesus and He told them to stop. Others had an experience while doing it that what they were doing was wrong...yet all of them used LSD and came to a deeper understanding of Christ. Is it then justifiable for me to use LSD as long as I am trying to gain a deeper understanding of Christ?

You must know full well that your friends never had the intention of finding Christ. The intention was carnal pleasure.

It is never of God to dabble in drug use...it is Satanic. Methinks you are baiting.

Then if it's an incorrect method, why do you support Rick warren? Its the same concept

It is not the same. You have gone to an extreme to criticize something intended for good, by comparing some aspect of it to something Satanic. You are entitled to your opinion, but don't try to wrest someone else's findings from him. That is not a wise use of influence.

[Floatingaxe]

I agree, none. Bible believing Christians are Holy Spirit led, not purpose driven. Warren has changed and rearranged much of biblical terminology to fit into his psycholigical man-made theology.

I don't know about you, but I am a Bible-believing Christian and I am led with a purpose! My purpose is to serve God with my life! To lay down my desires for His. To win others to Christ. That is the purpose that drives me...to be like Christ, a child of the King.

From that perspective, I have read The Purpose Driven Life and not found anything in there that opposes my purpose in Christ AT ALL.

People are like sheep. They follow. If there is a pious negative voice, they will be led easily by it. Stop listening to all the negative hype and follow after Christ, read the book with an eye on Him, and you will be blessed.

I don't need you to tell me who I should listen to or not listen to FA. The Lord's sheep are led, and not purpose driven. With that said, as I have already told you, I have already critiqued the PDL movement, and I find it to be junk. I don't need Rick Warren or you to tell me how to be led by the Holy Spirit when I can see and read for myself in my KJV, and for that I have been truly blessed all of my life, without your or Rick Warren's help. The Word of God and the saints of God have been around long before Rick Warren chopped up scripture to fit into his purpose driven theology, and that is where I receive my blessings from.

That's your opinion, and mine is that it is not junk. The Word of God is no comparison! Of course it is the place where we learn truth. Why would anyone neglect the scriptures in favour of a book?

(All your life, trmfiles? Were you born saved?) When did you come to Christ?

[apothanein kerdos]

There have been many 40-day journeys and fasts that churches and individuals have undergone to bring people into deeper devotion to Christ. Nothing wrong with that. It is a method, yes, but it is a biblically sound thing.

Try it. You will bless God, and you yourself will be blessed.

Again, this is using pragmatism. What if God has not called someone to a 40 day journey? Just because He has called some does not mean He has called all, or that it is prescriptive (again, all texts that deal with it are descriptive).

I have many friends that came to Christ, or gained a deeper understanding of Christ, by using LSD. Some saw Jesus and He told them to stop. Others had an experience while doing it that what they were doing was wrong...yet all of them used LSD and came to a deeper understanding of Christ. Is it then justifiable for me to use LSD as long as I am trying to gain a deeper understanding of Christ?

Of course God isn't calling us all to do a 40-day fast.

The LSD comments are needless tripe, and not fit for Worthy readers. No one is going to come to Christ from the influence of Satanic drug use.

Can I use LSD to get closer to God since it works for other people?

It doesn't work for other people.

I have many friends that came to Christ, or gained a deeper understanding of Christ, by using LSD. Some saw Jesus and He told them to stop. Others had an experience while doing it that what they were doing was wrong...yet all of them used LSD and came to a deeper understanding of Christ. Is it then justifiable for me to use LSD as long as I am trying to gain a deeper understanding of Christ?

You must know full well that your friends never had the intention of finding Christ. The intention was carnal pleasure.

It is never of God to dabble in drug use...it is Satanic. Methinks you are baiting.

Then if it's an incorrect method, why do you support Rick warren? Its the same concept

It is not the same. You have gone to an extreme to criticize something intended for good, by comparing some aspect of it to something Satanic. You are entitled to your opinion, but don't try to wrest someone else's findings from him. That is not a wise use of influence.

But that's pragmatism. You were saying that if it bring someone to Christ, then it's okay. Now you're adding the intention. This is something that Rick Warren does not include. As shown from the interview, he does not believe one has to be a Christian in order to benefit form his book.

[Floatingaxe]

Just as I said earlier, there are principles in the Word of God, that, when applied, will bring results that are promised, but WITHOUT spiritual fruit...empty spiritually.

[apothanein kerdos]

Just as I said earlier, there are principles in the Word of God, that, when applied, will bring results that are promised, but WITHOUT spiritual fruit...empty spiritually.

Such as?

There are good moral lessons, but there are no pragmatic principles in the Word of God.

[None]

There have been many 40-day journeys and fasts that churches and individuals have undergone to bring people into deeper devotion to Christ. Nothing wrong with that. It is a method, yes, but it is a biblically sound thing.

Try it. You will bless God, and you yourself will be blessed.

Again, this is using pragmatism. What if God has not called someone to a 40 day journey? Just because He has called some does not mean He has called all, or that it is prescriptive (again, all texts that deal with it are descriptive).

I have many friends that came to Christ, or gained a deeper understanding of Christ, by using LSD. Some saw Jesus and He told them to stop. Others had an experience while doing it that what they were doing was wrong...yet all of them used LSD and came to a deeper understanding of Christ. Is it then justifiable for me to use LSD as long as I am trying to gain a deeper understanding of Christ?

Of course God isn't calling us all to do a 40-day fast.

The LSD comments are needless tripe, and not fit for Worthy readers. No one is going to come to Christ from the influence of Satanic drug use.

I found those LSD comments extremely useful. I'm not going to go do it, oh heck no, but the analogy behind it fit the point perfectly. We're all different. Just like there's no one-diet-plan-fits-all, there's no one way, aside from walking with Jesus, to achieving "spirituality". Fellowship is extremely important, but it's in our personal walk with God we find greater spirituality.

If the 40 day plan worked for you, though, I can see why you promote it. There's nothing wrong with sharing something, like a testimony, when it's actually brought you closer with God. We just need to be careful not to go overboard and start following, head first, after anyone.

[Floatingaxe]

I agree, none. Bible believing Christians are Holy Spirit led, not purpose driven. Warren has changed and rearranged much of biblical terminology to fit into his psycholigical man-made theology.

I don't know about you, but I am a Bible-believing Christian and I am led with a purpose! My purpose is to serve God with my life! To lay down my desires for His. To win others to Christ. That is the purpose that drives me...to be like Christ, a child of the King.

From that perspective, I have read The Purpose Driven Life and not found anything in there that opposes my purpose in Christ AT ALL.

People are like sheep. They follow. If there is a pious negative voice, they will be led easily by it. Stop listening to all the negative hype and follow after Christ, read the book with an eye on Him, and you will be blessed.

I don't need you to tell me who I should listen to or not listen to FA. The Lord's sheep are led, and not purpose driven. With that said, as I have already told you, I have already critiqued the PDL movement, and I find it to be junk. I don't need Rick Warren or you to tell me how to be led by the Holy Spirit when I can see and read for myself in my KJV, and for that I have been truly blessed all of my life, without your or Rick Warren's help. The Word of God and the saints of God have been around long before Rick Warren chopped up scripture to fit into his purpose driven theology, and that is where I receive my blessings from.

That's your opinion, and mine is that it is not junk. The Word of God is no comparison! Of course it is the place where we learn truth. Why would anyone neglect the scriptures in favour of a book?

(All your life, trmfiles? Were you born saved?) When did you come to Christ?

An opinion I am entitled to, FA, whether you like it or not, and my salvation is not the topic of this thread.

Never said you weren't entitled....

[Floatingaxe]

There's nothing wrong with sharing something, like a testimony, when it's actually brought you closer with God. We just need to be careful not to go overboard and start following, head first, after anyone.

Right!

[None]

There's nothing wrong with sharing something, like a testimony, when it's actually brought you closer with God. We just need to be careful not to go overboard and start following, head first, after anyone.

Right!

[rtwo]

No, pragmatism is a word. Because somebody chose that word to describe a philosophy that has more to it than pure pragmatism, that doesn't change the true meaning of the word.

I, too, have a goal that I will do anything (so long as it's legal, moral and biblical) to accomplish: to grow God's Kingdom. In the strictist sense, I am a pragmatist. I recognize that philosophy doesn't get work done. Nevertheless, this is all semantic and meaningless.

Which, of course, is wrong...

First off, that was unneccesarily snotty, and frankly a little arrogant.

The fact, again, that somebody imbued a word that already existed (hence FA's dictionary definition) with another meaning, is completely meaningless to me. The same goes for your postmodern definition. Yes, in fact, I have studied it, both in church and culture. You again are resorting to mere semantics and suggesting that these prove your argument. They don't. Nevertheless, I suspect you are quite tied to your own theories on the subject, and any and all arguments will be meaningless to you. This isn't an indictment -- if you didn't think you were correct, it wouldn't be your opinion. I'm the same way. But this turn in conversation has convinced me that arguing the point with you is without purpose.