How do you become a pastor?

[Kansasdad]

Show me scripture that tells us this or demonstrates this..Otherwise it is just your opinion, and a tradition created by man. I would rather follow a tradition started by the Apostles who were indwelled by the Holy Spirit. You can follow whatever example you want, I will choose to follow the example given to us by the Apostles through scripture.

God Bless,

K.D.

I don't get this: either you have a time machine that youre going to go back and get taught by Apostles

or you're in a religion that has a perfect history without a blemish on its 2000 year track record. Which perfect institution may

that be? ... 3xR0c|<stAr

Where does the Bible say that the Church pastors would be perfect? I never said that was a requirement nor does the Bible say it will be so. Where did that idea come from. All I have pointed out is what the Bible tells us on the subject. It give us an example of how the Aposltes and the next 4 generations appointed the pastors of the church. This is directly from scripture. This is a tradition established by Scripture. Unless you can show me something different in Scripture than anything else is a tradition established by man.

God Bless,

K.D.

[EricH]

Very good, more examples where the Bible shows us that the pastors of the church from its beginning were taught by the Apostles. Further these men then taught others, and so on. The pastors of the church were never just anyone who claimed to have inspiration or knowledge. They were appointed and taught by the church fathers before them. We see the Apostles laying on of hands to appoint such men. Can your pastor trace his/her teaching back to the Apostles. Is there any other formula prescribed by the Bible. All other methods are traditions of men.

thats why Im a believer of seminary schools.

Paul was trying to organize, preach, and teach the good news.

He did this without a bible, on foot under a time constraint.

If he would of lived another 200 years he may be would of opened one.... 3xR0c|<stAr

How does an institution become a seminary school. Who are the teachers. Would not those same teachers also need to be able to trace their teaching back to the Apostles. Who taught the teachers?

If the seminary school does not have its roots in the progression described from the Bible would this not be a tradition established by man?

I think it would be important to know a little about the seminary. What is its history?

No, the teachers would need to be able to demonstrate that they know the word of God which was handed down to us thru the Apostles directly from God himself

Show me scripture that tells us this or demonstrates this..Otherwise it is just your opinion, and a tradition created by man. I would rather follow a tradition started by the Apostles who were indwelled by the Holy Spirit. You can follow whatever example you want, I will choose to follow the example given to us by the Apostles through scripture.

God Bless,

K.D.

Sure

This saying is trustworthy: "If anyone aspires to be an overseer, he desires a noble work." An overseer, therefore, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, self-controlled, sensible, respectable, hospitable, an able teacher, not addicted to wine, not a bully but gentle, not quarrelsome, not greedy-- one who manages his own household competently, having his children under control with all dignity.

1 Timothy 3:1-4 HCSB

The overseer must be able to teach (scripture). I see many character qualities here, but not one hint of apostolic succession. On the other hand you have not provided a scripture that commands us to pick overseers that are directly deliniated fromk the Apostles.

[Floatingaxe]

This saying is trustworthy: "If anyone aspires to be an overseer, he desires a noble work." An overseer, therefore, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, self-controlled, sensible, respectable, hospitable, an able teacher, not addicted to wine, not a bully but gentle, not quarrelsome, not greedy-- one who manages his own household competently, having his children under control with all dignity.

1 Timothy 3:1-4 HCSB

The overseer must be able to teach (scripture). I see many character qualities here, but not one hint of apostolic succession. On the other hand you have not provided a scripture that commands us to pick overseers that are directly deliniated fromk the Apostles.

Amen!

[EricH]

Very good, more examples where the Bible shows us that the pastors of the church from its beginning were taught by the Apostles. Further these men then taught others, and so on. The pastors of the church were never just anyone who claimed to have inspiration or knowledge. They were appointed and taught by the church fathers before them. We see the Apostles laying on of hands to appoint such men. Can your pastor trace his/her teaching back to the Apostles. Is there any other formula prescribed by the Bible. All other methods are traditions of men.

thats why Im a believer of seminary schools.

Paul was trying to organize, preach, and teach the good news.

He did this without a bible, on foot under a time constraint.

If he would of lived another 200 years he may be would of opened one.... 3xR0c|<stAr

How does an institution become a seminary school. Who are the teachers. Would not those same teachers also need to be able to trace their teaching back to the Apostles. Who taught the teachers?

If the seminary school does not have its roots in the progression described from the Bible would this not be a tradition established by man?

I think it would be important to know a little about the seminary. What is its history?

No, the teachers would need to be able to demonstrate that they know the word of God which was handed down to us thru the Apostles directly from God himself

Show me scripture that tells us this or demonstrates this..Otherwise it is just your opinion, and a tradition created by man. I would rather follow a tradition started by the Apostles who were indwelled by the Holy Spirit. You can follow whatever example you want, I will choose to follow the example given to us by the Apostles through scripture.

God Bless,

K.D.

So, do you choose your overseers by lot then?

[CaritateDei]

Very good, more examples where the Bible shows us that the pastors of the church from its beginning were taught by the Apostles. Further these men then taught others, and so on. The pastors of the church were never just anyone who claimed to have inspiration or knowledge. They were appointed and taught by the church fathers before them. We see the Apostles laying on of hands to appoint such men. Can your pastor trace his/her teaching back to the Apostles. Is there any other formula prescribed by the Bible. All other methods are traditions of men.

thats why Im a believer of seminary schools.

Paul was trying to organize, preach, and teach the good news.

He did this without a bible, on foot under a time constraint.

If he would of lived another 200 years he may be would of opened one.... 3xR0c|<stAr

How does an institution become a seminary school. Who are the teachers. Would not those same teachers also need to be able to trace their teaching back to the Apostles. Who taught the teachers?

If the seminary school does not have its roots in the progression described from the Bible would this not be a tradition established by man?

I think it would be important to know a little about the seminary. What is its history?

No, the teachers would need to be able to demonstrate that they know the word of God which was handed down to us thru the Apostles directly from God himself

Show me scripture that tells us this or demonstrates this..Otherwise it is just your opinion, and a tradition created by man. I would rather follow a tradition started by the Apostles who were indwelled by the Holy Spirit. You can follow whatever example you want, I will choose to follow the example given to us by the Apostles through scripture.

God Bless,

K.D.

So, do you choose your overseers by lot then?

EricH, you have just given the qualifications of the overseer. In nowhere, does the prescriptive Paul tell us how that overseer is chosen. He merely states what all overseers or Apostles must be. I am sure that Matthias fit the bill.

Paul gave us these qualifications. Paul was an Apostle.

[CaritateDei]

Very good, more examples where the Bible shows us that the pastors of the church from its beginning were taught by the Apostles. Further these men then taught others, and so on. The pastors of the church were never just anyone who claimed to have inspiration or knowledge. They were appointed and taught by the church fathers before them. We see the Apostles laying on of hands to appoint such men. Can your pastor trace his/her teaching back to the Apostles. Is there any other formula prescribed by the Bible. All other methods are traditions of men.

thats why Im a believer of seminary schools.

Paul was trying to organize, preach, and teach the good news.

He did this without a bible, on foot under a time constraint.

If he would of lived another 200 years he may be would of opened one.... 3xR0c|<stAr

How does an institution become a seminary school. Who are the teachers. Would not those same teachers also need to be able to trace their teaching back to the Apostles. Who taught the teachers?

If the seminary school does not have its roots in the progression described from the Bible would this not be a tradition established by man?

I think it would be important to know a little about the seminary. What is its history?

No, the teachers would need to be able to demonstrate that they know the word of God which was handed down to us thru the Apostles directly from God himself

Show me scripture that tells us this or demonstrates this..Otherwise it is just your opinion, and a tradition created by man. I would rather follow a tradition started by the Apostles who were indwelled by the Holy Spirit. You can follow whatever example you want, I will choose to follow the example given to us by the Apostles through scripture.

God Bless,

K.D.

So, do you choose your overseers by lot then?

Being that Kansasdad does not claim to be an apostle, he does not.

You seem to be letting on that the only thing the apostles did was cast lots to see which apostle would be chosen. Barsabbas and Matthias were the top two candidates, and after much prayer, the Apostles asked for a sign. They threw the lots to find the sign on which person would be given the Apostolic seal of approval from the almighty. I'm sure we do not do this anymore, but it sounds like you are criticizing the Apostles method of asking God for a sign. I do not believe that lots was the important thing here, but the fact that these Apostles of God were getting together in prayer and devotion in order to ask God above which should be the proper choice.

If they used lots, a spinner, a witchdoctor's watering stick...it is safe to believe that these Apostles were the ones to choose this man...and were the only ones guided by the spirit enough to appoint that overseer.

Edited April 11, 2007 by CaritateDei

[exrockstar]

I have courage enough to say that Apostles cannot elect Apostles. (i say that walking on egg shells because I havent seen scripture saying otherwise).

Apostles were hand picked by Jesus Christ and

altough they cast their lots and it fell on Matthias; you never hear of Matthias again.

God chooses Paul next and is personally taught. ... 3xR0c|<stAr

Edited April 11, 2007 by exrockstar

[CaritateDei]

I have courage enough to say that Apostles cannot elect Apostles.

Apostles were hand picked by Jesus Christ and

altough they cast their lots and it fell on Matthias; you never hear of Matthias again.

God chooses Paul next and is personally taught. ... 3xR0c|<stAr

Ok...so Matthias was not a proper replacement?

So they had no authority to ask God for guidance in which should be his next Apostle? The Apostles, the same folks that hold things bound on earth and in heaven above...have no authority to appoint others by the grace, authority, and guide of God above?

Your statement is unbiblical, exrockstar.

[Kansasdad]

Very good, more examples where the Bible shows us that the pastors of the church from its beginning were taught by the Apostles. Further these men then taught others, and so on. The pastors of the church were never just anyone who claimed to have inspiration or knowledge. They were appointed and taught by the church fathers before them. We see the Apostles laying on of hands to appoint such men. Can your pastor trace his/her teaching back to the Apostles. Is there any other formula prescribed by the Bible. All other methods are traditions of men.

thats why Im a believer of seminary schools.

Paul was trying to organize, preach, and teach the good news.

He did this without a bible, on foot under a time constraint.

If he would of lived another 200 years he may be would of opened one.... 3xR0c|<stAr

How does an institution become a seminary school. Who are the teachers. Would not those same teachers also need to be able to trace their teaching back to the Apostles. Who taught the teachers?

If the seminary school does not have its roots in the progression described from the Bible would this not be a tradition established by man?

I think it would be important to know a little about the seminary. What is its history?

No, the teachers would need to be able to demonstrate that they know the word of God which was handed down to us thru the Apostles directly from God himself

Show me scripture that tells us this or demonstrates this..Otherwise it is just your opinion, and a tradition created by man. I would rather follow a tradition started by the Apostles who were indwelled by the Holy Spirit. You can follow whatever example you want, I will choose to follow the example given to us by the Apostles through scripture.

God Bless,

K.D.

So, do you choose your overseers by lot then?

That was the way they replaced an Apostle but not the way they ordained pastors. Why are you trying to confuse the issue? What scripture give us is how the Apostles ordained pastors of the various churches. It gives us this example through 4 generations. You still have not given any scripture that says anything different for how to become a pastor. Your example only shows what scripture tells us about the qualities of a pastor. This is a tradition clearly outlined by Scripture.

Paul told Timothy, "What you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also" (2 Tim. 2:2).

And we also know through historical record that this is exactly what they did for generations. Who decided to change this and by what authority?

Pastors were never just anyone who studied scripture and proclaimed themselves to be a pastor, or a self proclaimed authority able to teach others.

Scripture gives us this tradition, are you following it or are you following one created outside of scripture.

God Bless,

K.D.

[exrockstar]

I have courage enough to say that Apostles cannot elect Apostles.

Apostles were hand picked by Jesus Christ and

altough they cast their lots and it fell on Matthias; you never hear of Matthias again.

God chooses Paul next and is personally taught. ... 3xR0c|<stAr

Ok...so Matthias was not a proper replacement?

So they had no authority to ask God for guidance in which should be his next Apostle? The Apostles, the same folks that hold things bound on earth and in heaven above...have no authority to appoint others by the grace, authority, and guide of God above?

Your statement is unbiblical, exrockstar.

on the contrary show in scripture that God accepted Mattias.

After personally being with Jesus Christ they still put faith on casting lots.

Whatever the result was for Mattias we don't know about it in scripture.

What we do know is God talked to Paul and asked him "why do you persecute me?" and Christ taught Paul the

same way Christ taught the apostles.

We both know that the Apostles weren't perfect because they just sold Jesus out not long before.

As I said, I know Im walking on eggshells, but I've never seen anything about Mattias only Paul.

Paul was handpicked by God and Mattias was not.

I'm not taking away from scripture and Im not adding either. ... 3xR0c|<stAr

edited to add this scripture:

Acts 1:1 In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach 2until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen.

Although Luke is writing Acts with inspiration by the Holy Spirit it is clear the Christ is the one that chooses. The casting of lots never said God chose Matthias. The scripture says "the lots fell on Matthias."

Edited April 11, 2007 by exrockstar