The Jewish are YHVH'S People!

[Guest shiloh357]

I think you know that I know that God has 'CHOSEN' Israel for a particular purpose from history past to the very end, but ONLY those who acknowledge and receive Christ as their Savior are THE ELECT or THE CHOSEN or THE ETERNALLY SAVED.

I understand that you are aware that God has chosen the Jewish people for a particular purpose. That is is the only sense in which they were ever chosen. Nowhere does God say that they are better than anyone else, or more loved than anyone else, because they were chosen. That goes without saying.

The word definitions you provided cover a wide variety of uses in various contexts. Strongs is an exhaustive commentary, and not anylitical. It simply gives all of the possible meanings of a given word. Elect or chosen might within certain contexts be used to denote a special honor or position, but not where the chosenness of the Jewish people are concerned. Nowhere in Scripture is chosenness with regard to the jewish people ever used in the sense of favorite.

The only reason that non-Jewish believers have a problem with the Jewish people being the chosen people is that they have misapplied the meaning of such a concept, IMO.

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Shiloh,

The only reason that non-Jewish believers have a problem with the Jewish people being the chosen people is that they have misapplied the meaning of such a concept, IMO.

Well, this is one non-Jewish believer who believes what the scripture says.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Guest shiloh357]

Well, this is one non-Jewish believer who believes what the scripture says.

Perhaps, but that does not change the fact that you are missapplying the concept of "chosen" as it relates to the Jewish people.

[Guest yod]

I think you know that I know that God has 'CHOSEN' Israel for a particular purpose from history past to the very end, but ONLY those who acknowledge and receive Christ as their Savior are THE ELECT or THE CHOSEN or THE ETERNALLY SAVED.

that's right!!!!

....because they are no longer excluded from the commonwealth of Israel

Ephesians 2:12

Greetings Yod,

I think we've gone through that before. We are ONLY "drawn nigh" to Israel in Christ. WE DO NOT BECOME A PART OF ISRAEL EITHER PHYSICAL OR SPIRITUAL.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

I didn't say we became Israel...or even part of it. Do you understand what a commonwealth is?

If we want to be joined to any of the covenants given to Israel (including the new covenant which was given to the House of Israel and the house of Judah) then we are part of the commonwealth.

Just like Puerto Rico and Guam aren't America or even American states, they are of the commonwealth of America and enjoy the same laws and protection of the United States.

Now Snowdoove.....this "dual covenant" where jews are saved by virtue of being jewish is clearly dealt with in the first few books of Romans where Paul quotes the OT prophet of Isaiah.

All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God...all are bound under sin....and ALL need a Redeemer.

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Yod,

I didn't say we became Israel...or even part of it. Do you understand what a commonwealth is?

If we want to be joined to any of the covenants given to Israel (including the new covenant which was given to the House of Israel and the house of Judah) then we are part of the commonwealth.

Just like Puerto Rico and Guam aren't America or even American states, they are of the commonwealth of America and enjoy the same laws and protection of the United States.

You just don't get it Yod. If you understood "the Kingdom of God", then you would understand the Ephesian scriptures. It was Israel to whom God revealed Himself and with whom He made His presence on this earth known, all the way from Jacob to Jesus. BUT, it was taken from them when they rejected Christ and given to the gentiles. We know that the Kingdom of God up to the time of the cross had only Jews and those who attached themselves to the God of Israel. Therein was the "remnant" of which Paul spoke and of whom he claimed kinship. These were "branches" of the Olive Tree (representing the Kingdom of God) that had NOT been lopped off. From the cross forward we see the wild olive tree branches (the gentiles) being grafted in AMONG the Jewish branches that remained on the tree. You and I as wild branches NOW receive the same succulent sap to nourish us as those of the TRUE Israel branches. This sap comes from deep within the Kingdom of God to the person of Jesus Christ. We are NIGH our brothers in the faith - Jewish believers. Our "source" IS NOT Israel, BUT our COMMON SOURCE is Jesus Christ because the middle wall of partition was broken down at the cross. When those of unbelieving Israel come back to the Lord, they will be "regrafted" back in to what was once THEIR tree and because they are the "natural branches" will produce even more and better succulent fruit than the WILD branches. "How much more shall we all be blessed as that happens"?

Until you get this straight your theology is all out of wack.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Guest yod]

It was Israel to whom God revealed Himself and with whom He made His presence on this earth known, all the way from Jacob to Jesus. BUT, it was taken from them when they rejected Christ and given to the gentiles.

You are right. I don't get it.

I can't figure out how you can take one verse spoken to a few specific jewish leaders a few thousand years ago and apply it across the board to all of Israel from that time into eternity. It makes the rest of the Bible contradict itself.

Let the Bible speak instead of bending it to fit what you want to believe.

We know that the Kingdom of God up to the time of the cross had only Jews and those who attached themselves to the God of Israel.

The Kingdom of God included gentiles going all the way back to Adam, Noah, Enoch, Abraham, Isaac, Caleb, Ruth etc..etc...etc..

It was to be administered through the Chosen People to the world. This administration was "taken" but I don't think you can make the case that this is an eternal punishment or curse.

I believe that the gentile church began "the times of the gentiles" and it ended in 1967. Just as it took over a century for the gentile church to fully complete this change, it is taking time for the switch now. For the record, I don't think we are going back to the "times of the jews" but rather the "times of the One New Man" has come. Israel is still the head of this commonwealth.

Therein was the "remnant" of which Paul spoke and of whom he claimed kinship. These were "branches" of the Olive Tree (representing the Kingdom of God) that had NOT been lopped off. From the cross forward we see the wild olive tree branches (the gentiles) being grafted in AMONG the Jewish branches that remained on the tree. You and I as wild branches NOW receive the same succulent sap to nourish us as those of the TRUE Israel branches. This sap comes from deep within the Kingdom of God to the person of Jesus Christ. We are NIGH our brothers in the faith - Jewish believers. Our "source" IS NOT Israel, BUT our COMMON SOURCE is Jesus Christ because the middle wall of partition was broken down at the cross.

We have no disagreement over any of that....except for one little word.

It was "once" their tree? The verse says we are grafted in among them. "Some branches were broken off" is the accurate reading of the verse.

When those of unbelieving Israel come back to the Lord, they will be "regrafted" back in to what was once THEIR tree and because they are the "natural branches" will produce even more and better succulent fruit than the WILD branches. "How much more shall we all be blessed as that happens"?

Amen

Until you get this straight your theology is all out of wack.

how special

Since you are so good at word games, would you mind defining commonwealth?

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Yod,

Jesus came preaching the "Kingdom of God" NOT the "Kingdom of Israel". You somehow think they are synonomous, which they are NOT.

Let's take a look at "commonwealth":

4174 politeia {pol-ee-ti'-ah}

from 4177 ("polity"); TDNT - 6:516,906; n f

AV - freedom 1, commonwealth 1; 2

1) the administration of civil affairs

2) a state or commonwealth

3) citizenship, the rights of a citizen

Ephesians 2:12-14 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Paul could have stated just as well "the STATE or NATION of Israel", so your point wears thin here, there is no signifiance to what you are trying to point out.

The important thing is that as the then "remnant" who maintained a right relationship with God and of course our Fathers in the Faith and the prophets and all the OT Saints remained a part of the Kingdom of God (the Olive Tree), they were NOT the branches which were lopped off. We as gentiles were grafted in among them - IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD. You refuse to understand or to admit what this verse means:

Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Israel was NOT taken from Israel. If you would look up what the definition for "Kingdom of God" is you would find that it means: "The place wherein God manifests His presence". That's why Jesus could say: If I do these things by the power of God, then you know the Kingdom of God has come among you. Indeed we see that the disciples eventually all were scattered among the gentiles and the Gospel message went to the ends of the earth. Why don't you read about the Wars by Josephus? In them you will find a treasure of knowledge that will help you better understand exactly what happened to the Jews.

Please study these things out for yourself Yod, then you will know that I speak the truth.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Guest yod]

C'mon Dad.

You know I would never accuse you of lying. I know that you are speaking the truth as you see it. I just don't see how you keep misreading what I say.

I haven't ever confused the kingdom of God with the kingdom of Israel. That would be meshuggenah! (crazy)

Yet the Kingdom of God has more than one meaning.

1. There is the Kingdom of God is in each of us right now.

2. There is the Kingdom of God coming upon the earth in the Millennial Age

3. There is the eternal Kingdom of God which resides in heaven and lasts eternally.

Maybe you misunderstand which "kingdom" I'm referring to???

Individuals are joined to the present spiritual kingdom of God (Definition #1) by faith alone. They are joined to the heavenly kingdom (Definition #3) by being judged righteous by the vicarious atonement of Yeshua.

Let's look at #2 for a moment because this is what I believe Ephesians is referring to....

I believe that there was a kingdom promised to Israel which is physical. There will come a day when it stretches from the Red Sea to the Euphrates. In that day, the Torah will go forth from Zion and the Word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

They will be a nation of priests with Messiah as their King.

Zech 8

20 This is what the LORD Almighty says: "Many peoples and the inhabitants of many cities will yet come, 21 and the inhabitants of one city will go to another and say, 'Let us go at once to entreat the LORD and seek the LORD Almighty. I myself am going.' 22 And many peoples and powerful nations will come to Jerusalem to seek the LORD Almighty and to entreat him."

23 This is what the LORD Almighty says: "In those days ten men from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, 'Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you.' "

Why would God do such a thing? I don't know. His ways are too high for me....but you and I both know that His word bears this out.

In the meantime there is a problem of authority among men who wish to "cast away the cords that bind them" but God has set His King on His holy hill of Zion [Psalm 2]

This Kingdom of God (definition #2) will rule the world someday. It is not in doubt so the Lord has already made a few promises regarding this Kingdom. These promises are given in the form of covenants with Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, David, other prophets in history, and finally Yeshua.

We, the nations, have entered into those covenants by virtue of being joined to "THIS" Israel which is also "a" kingdom of God. There are separate aspects for the physical seed of Abraham that may not apply to us but all spiritual aspects are given to anyone who has the faith of Abraham. This kingdom is administered by way of commonwealth as your definition so clearly points out.

commonwealth

1) the administration of civil affairs

2) a state or commonwealth

3) citizenship, the rights of a citizen

who loves you baby???

Yod does.