How strong is your faith?

[Zemke]

Job's Issue was FEAR!!!! It was a fear of Cursing God if something happened to him. It was in his mind constantly, because if you curse God, then you die. That was Job's understanding. It's very evident the devil had been trying to get through that wall for a long time. We can not give place to the devil. NEVER.

God never made a deal with the devil. Our father in Heave protects us, not gives Satan permission to murder our Children........... Behold, just means look, and pay attention. It's not permissive in Hebrew. God never once agreed to the deal. NEVER and IN Job chapter 2, God said the whole things was without cause...... vain...... senseless. People seem to miss that one.

Job lays out the start. The book list all Job's stuff. Something Job did not want to loose, and did things constantly to keep it safe. He was motivated by fear, which gives the devil a place.

Next mentioned is his kids. It could be, who knows that they might have cursed God. If you curse God you die. Job out of fear for his children constantly sacrificed for them just in case.

The devils deal with God was................ Job will curse you........... The devil was betting that all his work was going to pay off. It was the whole theme the devil had Job under Bondage to.

Job's wife said........... Just curse God and die..... Wonder who helped her say that.

Faith? Does it really matter? What is it? Faith is an empowerment by the Word to believe the Word over what our physical senses tell us. Can these bones live?? Ezekiel's Answer was awesome....... "You know Lord.... You know".....

When they feed the five thousands, the disciples answer was not so awesome..........

The book of Job is not about the why.. Job broke a spiritual law that says fear gives entrance to the devil. Job said in 3:25 that it was those things He greatly feared, those things came on him.

We are not perfect, and don't always understand everything yet. We will do dumb stuff spiritually and give the devil a place. Unlike Job though, we need to call for help. Job never called on the Lord for help, he wanted to know from the Lord what the heck he did wrong. Elihu corrected him, and God was not real happy with him at the end. We still see the mercy of the Lord though.

Faith is important. Jesus said all things are possible to them that believe.......... What if you don't believe? Do things work out for the good of those that love God ..............AND called according to his purpose?

The bible is full of conditional statements....... We have this mentality that whatever ever happens, God is in Control, and that is far from the truth. It's those that trust in him and Obey him that are not ashamed. Trust is not confessing your going to die of that disease, it's saying my God sent his word and healed me.. Trust just speaks what your Father in Heaven said, it does not side with Physical things that harm us, or can harm us.

Fear is just faith in something bad happening in the Future. It's perverted faith. It's faith in the wrong things and just as powerful to come to pass as faith in God's word.

Job did not have the revelation to not fear.......... There is still provision though that God will perfect everything that concerns me, and anything I am not perfect minded in him about, He is faithful and will reveal those things to me. I will make the changes right away.

God said choose...... Choose to be blessed or choose to be cursed. Our choices and words do matter and carry great weight in the realm of the spirit. God gave the earth to man, and the Heaven belongs to the Lord. There is no sickness in Heaven, no bad parts of town, no murders. He is only in control when we Obey, believe and listen. We see what man did with the Earth, though it's God's will that things be done on earth as it is in Heaven, it's not getting done, though it's his will. Our fault, not God's. He expects us to believe what he had sent us. (The Word) If we don't, it will cost us.

So next time you say........ "We just never seem to have enough to pay the bills........" Stop yourself............. That is not true. Stop saying that and agree with the one that created you, because he said I will supply all your needs.

Jesus Is Lord.

Wow,

" There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job, and that man was blameless, upright and fearing God and turning away from evil."

What book of Job are you reading?

What God said in chapter 2 vs. 3 was ""And he still holds fast his integrity, although you incited Me against him, to ruin him without cause."

You know the shame of this is you will go on and on even when the scripture is put write in front of you.

"And everyone kept feeling a sense of awe; and many wonders and signs were taking place through the apostles. Acts 2:43

awe: 5401 phobos....fear. I guess the early church didn't get it either. Lack of faith, no wonder the city got trashed and the lack of faith, full of fear believers had to scat to the mountains and hide like a bunch of fearful children.

I really don't get how you can twist things like you do without a sense of awe.

[Zemke]

"Now therefore take for yourselves (speaking to Jobs friends) seven bulls and seven rams and go to My servant Job.............and my servant Job will pray for you. For I will except him so I will not do with you according to your folly, Because you have not spoken of me what is right, as My servant Job has." 42:8 "The fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much."

.........and they ate bread with him in his house; and they consoled him and comforted him for all the evil that the Lord had brought on him. 42:11

But he(Job) said to her, "You speak as of one of the foolish women speaks. Shall we indeed except good from God and not except adversity?" In all this Job did not sin with his lips. 2:10

If your theology can not handle God doing these things then maybe your theology needs rethinking. Your changing Job to fit your interpretations of other scripture and your handling of faith itself. You preach faith in faith. Word faith can't handle Jobs faith cause it don't fit word faiths teaching of faith and the box they've made for how God acts in the spiritual principles about faith in faith.

Job had faith. Everything dear to him was taken, then his health was taken and he still held fast his faith. He believed. And don't you think that the Lord knew he would? Every believer will have their faith tried at some point in some way. But never beyond what we can handle. Trials will break us and make us, and will rid us of this world. Hating the garment even spotted. He wants us to love Him, not the things of this world. He who believes has eternal life. Job believed and hung strong, that's faith.

As Paul said " But may it never be that I should boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world." Gal 6:14

Many of the trials of Paul are well recorded, A statement like the one above comes from trials, which are true spiritual blessing by the way.

The cross is central in Christian doctrine and should be central in our lives.

Your handling of the word "cause" is twisted. Of coarse what God did had purpose, we have the book of Job for one thing, Job even prayed that others might read about his dellema. Thousands of years later we are reading Job and learning about true faith, well except word faith people. Job was a carnal man to you all.

God was saying the devil incited Him against Job, there was nothing Job had done to cause this, there was no cause. He did this to Job without cause. Not "a" cause. He didn't say " to ruin him without "a" cause.

But once again it is obvious Job had nothing to do with what fell on him and you will once again go on and on.

You finding fault with Job is doing what Jobs friends did and they were wrong. It is so obvious, but go ahead and listen to Kenny who came up with this crazy teaching anyway. Or maybe took it from Hagan. Accusing anyone that disagrees with you of not knowing scripture is old hat.

You're reading Job through the eyes of mans teaching and not reading Job for Job. Read it slowly and ask God for the truth.

[AnotherSinner]

"Now therefore take for yourselves (speaking to Jobs friends) seven bulls and seven rams and go to My servant Job.............and my servant Job will pray for you. For I will except him so I will not do with you according to your folly, Because you have not spoken of me what is right, as My servant Job has." 42:8 "The fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much."

.........and they ate bread with him in his house; and they consoled him and comforted him for all the evil that the Lord had brought on him. 42:11

But he(Job) said to her, "You speak as of one of the foolish women speaks. Shall we indeed except good from God and not except adversity?" In all this Job did not sin with his lips. 2:10

If your theology can not handle God doing these things then maybe your theology needs rethinking. Your changing Job to fit your interpretations of other scripture and your handling of faith itself. You preach faith in faith. Word faith can't handle Jobs faith cause it don't fit word faiths teaching of faith and the box they've made for how God acts in the spiritual principles about faith in faith.

Job had faith. Everything dear to him was taken, then his health was taken and he still held fast his faith. He believed. And don't you think that the Lord knew he would? Every believer will have their faith tried at some point in some way. But never beyond what we can handle. Trials will break us and make us, and will rid us of this world. Hating the garment even spotted. He wants us to love Him, not the things of this world. He who believes has eternal life. Job believed and hung strong, that's faith.

As Paul said " But may it never be that I should boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world." Gal 6:14

Many of the trials of Paul are well recorded, A statement like the one above comes from trials, which are true spiritual blessing by the way.

The cross is central in Christian doctrine and should be central in our lives.

Your handling of the word "cause" is twisted. Of coarse what God did had purpose, we have the book of Job for one thing, Job even prayed that others might read about his dellema. Thousands of years later we are reading Job and learning about true faith, well except word faith people. Job was a carnal man to you all.

God was saying the devil incited Him against Job, there was nothing Job had done to cause this, there was no cause. He did this to Job without cause. Not "a" cause. He didn't say " to ruin him without "a" cause.

But once again it is obvious Job had nothing to do with what fell on him and you will once again go on and on.

You finding fault with Job is doing what Jobs friends did and they were wrong. It is so obvious, but go ahead and listen to Kenny who came up with this crazy teaching anyway. Or maybe took it from Hagan. Accusing anyone that disagrees with you of not knowing scripture is old hat.

You're reading Job through the eyes of mans teaching and not reading Job for Job. Read it slowly and ask God for the truth.

Job remained perfect then? I am afraid that is not biblically accurate for if that were so, why would Jesus be later needed in the picture at all?

Job became prideful somewhere along the line. While he may not have cursed God and died, he did become prideful of his sin-less nature which

in itself can be seen as a form of vanity.

Just Another Sinner Without A Clue

Dani

[Zemke]

No one is saying Job remained perfect. He just didn't do anything to cause this kind of horror in his life. The book seems very clear about that. His friends tried to find out what he did and accuse him of doing things and made statements about God but they where wrong, even when they seemed to make sense. Seems clear about that also.

I tried to make a point that Job had faith and Mike was saying, no he had fear and broke a principle of faith and therefore gave place to the devil and blah blah blah. Exactly what Jobs friends were trying to do. It really seems simple to me. The theological points the book brings up are not exactly simple but I've attempted to point out that Job had faith. Not that he was perfect.

[gdemoss]

Job made one mistake. He rested in his own righteousness instead of justifying God. Anyone who does that will suffer for it though they be righteous. He that does righteousness is righteous even as he is righteous.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

[Zemke]

AnotherSinner and gdemoss your points are noted but they deal with the meat of Job, the rest of the story. I thought what I posted was fairly clear but if you took what your saying and place it in the first chapter it wouldn't fit. Especially Mikes stuff. I was simply arguing that Job had faith.

God did not say to Satan:

"Have you considered My servant Job? A man who rests in his own righteousness and has become prideful, a man who fears the loss of what he has. I see a door of opportunity for you Satan since we understand the spiritual laws of such things. A window has opened. Now go forth and put your hand on what he has, but do not put a hand on him."

This is what's written;

"And the Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job,?

For there is no one like him on the earth,

a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil."

Then Satan answered the LORD,

"Does Job fear God for nothing?"

"Hast thou not made a hedge about him and his house and all that he has on every side?"

Thou has blessed the work of his hands,

and his possessions have increased in all the land."

"But put forth thy hand now and touch all that he has; he will surely curse thee to thy face."

Then the LORD said to Satan,

"Behold all that he has is in your power, only do not put forth your hand on him." Job 18-12

Even after God allowed Satan to put a hand on Job, Job said.

""Shall we indeed accept good from God and not accept adversity?"

In all this Job did not sin with his lips. 2:10

It doesn't say; In all this Job was mistaken. For thousands of years from now a word of faith will fall upon mankind and the keys of understanding to a wealthy nation.

[Rare Bird]

People go to Job looking for answers. Instead, they come out with more questions. My take away from this book/event is that God is sovereign. He can do as He pleases to bring about His perfect will. We aren't always on a need-to-know basis and must bow the knee and continue to worship Him for who He is, rather than what He does for us.

Verse 42:5 really hit home with me as I came out of my "night season" which Gary, Mike and Zemke are all aware of--“I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear;But now my eye SEES You;..." God uses these periods to refine us into the likeness of His son. Sometimes there are no cut and dry answers.

Many Christians are perplexed when trials come (myself included!). Here is something I ran across that helped, hoping it helps others who are enduring the refiner's fire:

Why Do Christians Have Trials?

[From Hal Lindsey’s book, Combat Faith,

Bantam Books, New York, 1986.]

1. To glorify God.

(Daniel 3:16-18, 24-25)

2. Discipline for known sin.

(Hebrews 12:5-11; James 4:17; Romans 14:23; 1 John 1:9)

3. To prevent us from falling into sin.

(1 Peter 4:1-2)

4. To keep us from pride.

Paul was kept from pride by his .thorn in the flesh.

(2 Corinthians 12:7-10)

[His eyes? Galatians 4:15; 6:11]

5. To build faith.

(1 Peter 1:6-7)

6. To cause growth.

(Romans 5:3-5)

[Read Faith in the Night Seasons by Nancy Missler]

7. To teach obedience and discipline.

(Acts 9:15-16; Philippians 4:11-13)

8. To equip us to comfort others.

(2 Corinthians 1:3-4)

9. To prove the reality of Christ in us.

(2 Corinthians 4:7-11)

10. For testimony to the angels.

(Job 1:8; Ephesians 3:8-11; 1 Peter 1:12)

Another resource that can shed light on this is the book "Faith in the Night Seasons" by Nancy Missler.

P.S. Not going to debate what I wrote. It's just information. Take it or leave it. ;-)

Edited August 22, 2012 by Rare Bird

[enoob57]

People go to Job looking for answers. Instead, they come out with more questions. My take away from this book/event is that God is sovereign. He can do as He pleases to bring about His perfect will. We aren't always on a need-to-know basis and must bow the knee and continue to worship Him for who He is, rather than what He does for us.

Verse 42:5 really hit home with me as I came out of my "night season" which Gary, Mike and Zemke are all aware of--“I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear;But now my eye SEES You;..." God uses these periods to refine us into the likeness of His son. Sometimes there are no cut and dry answers.

Many Christians are perplexed when trials come (myself included!). Here is something I ran across that helped, hoping it helps others who are enduring the refiner's fire:

Why Do Christians Have Trials?

[From Hal Lindsey’s book, Combat Faith,

Bantam Books, New York, 1986.]

1. To glorify God.

(Daniel 3:16-18, 24-25)

2. Discipline for known sin.

(Hebrews 12:5-11; James 4:17; Romans 14:23; 1 John 1:9)

3. To prevent us from falling into sin.

(1 Peter 4:1-2)

4. To keep us from pride.

Paul was kept from pride by his .thorn in the flesh.

(2 Corinthians 12:7-10)

[His eyes? Galatians 4:15; 6:11]

5. To build faith.

(1 Peter 1:6-7)

6. To cause growth.

(Romans 5:3-5)

[Read Faith in the Night Seasons by Nancy Missler]

7. To teach obedience and discipline.

(Acts 9:15-16; Philippians 4:11-13)

8. To equip us to comfort others.

(2 Corinthians 1:3-4)

9. To prove the reality of Christ in us.

(2 Corinthians 4:7-11)

10. For testimony to the angels.

(Job 1:8; Ephesians 3:8-11; 1 Peter 1:12)

Another resource that can shed light on this is the book "Faith in the Night Seasons" by Nancy Missler.

P.S. Not going to debate what I wrote. It's just information. Take it or leave it. ;-)

Now listen bird.... if you post it ya have to argue about it Love, Steven

[Rare Bird]

Steven, you funny guy. Ha ha! Best advice I ever got..."pick your battles." I'm a lover ,

not a fighter.

[enoob57]

Steven, you funny guy. Ha ha! Best advice I ever got..."pick your battles." I'm a lover ,

not a fighter.

That would make you picky....