Special preference to homosexuals

[Guest LadyC]

if a muslim wants to hire only muslims, i see no problem. the fact still remains, most companies, especially large ones, aren't going to consider their religion to be at the core of their company.

again, let me reiterate....

IF a company is KNOWN for being a christian company (or a muslim company, or whatever), then they should be allowed to hire only those who share the same core beliefs. it's unlikely that it would ever become denominationally based, because all christians share the same core beliefs.

i'll use the covenant transportation trucking line again to illustrate my point. covenant is well known as a christian company and makes sure that it's unmistakable by the slogan painted on each of their tractors and trailers.

if a driver for their company is at a truckstop overnight, buys a case of beer and rents a porno movie to take back to his truck with him, that is damaging the reputation of the company and giving all christians, and God, a bad name. and the credibility of the entire company (not just their slogan, but their reliability in EVERY WAY,) is compromised.

but if the only truckers that company hires are christians, the odds of that happening are slim to none.

[The Lorax]

I fail to see how eliminating sexual discrimination is giving homosexuals "special preference."

[Guest LadyC]

lorax, you think we're all a bunch of homophobes anyway just because we stand by scripture on the issue of homosexual activities being an abomination to God.

but aside from that, so are you saying that you don't believe that anyone in business should have any rights or freedoms? i.e. EQUAL rights and freedoms such as applicants are entitled to?

are you saying that the laws that are already currently ESTABLISHED to protect gays from discrimination aren't enough and they deserve ADDITIONAL laws, when the rest of us don't get additional laws?

[Guest LadyC]

by the way, sexual discrimination is about gender. sexual-preference discrimination is about lifestyle choices.

[The Lorax]

by the way, sexual discrimination is about gender. sexual-preference discrimination is about lifestyle choices.

No, it's not. Not every homosexual chooses to be gay. In fact, most don't.

Sexual orientation isn't just another lifestyle choice. If you think it is, maybe you can tell me (1) at what point I chose to be bisexual (because I don't remember when) and (2) why I would make a choice that has been terribly inconvenient to my life as a Christian Why would I choose something that I have repressed every day of my life? ...Because I didn't get to choose.

As for the rights of businesses: government already restricts business' rights to make sexist, ageist and racist discriminations, and I fail to see how sexual orientation is any different. You would argue that sexual preference is different because it's a choice, but for most of us it isn't.

[Guest LadyC]

No, it's not. Not every homosexual chooses to be gay. In fact, most don't.

THAT has never been proven, so your statement is only opinion based on your personal feelings.

regardless of how a homosexual FEELS (may i remind you a drug addict or alcoholic also feels they have no choice but to keep using), a homosexual, or a bisexual such as your self, has the CHOICE as to whether or not he/she/you ACT on those impulses, or whether you choose to obey GOD in this matter.

[The Lorax]

THAT has never been proven, so your statement is only opinion based on your personal feelings.

I am only saying what I know personally: I never made a choice. Do I really need scientific proof of what I already know?

(may i remind you a drug addict or alcoholic also feels they have no choice but to keep using)

Their addiction resulted from a willful act.

a homosexual, or a bisexual such as your self, has the CHOICE as to whether or not he/she/you ACT on those impulses, or whether you choose to obey GOD in this matter.

Exactly. We can choose not to ACT on our impulses. But we can't choose not to HAVE them.

I have been bi all my life. I have never acted on it. Simply being bi should never be held against me, just like being black or being female should never be held against them.

[Guest LadyC]

then unless you TOLD someone, how would anyone know? aside from here, do you go around wearing some label on your clothing that identifies your sexual preference? of course not. so just BEING bi doesn't get held against you.

do you need science to back up what you feel? maybe, maybe not. but the fact that scripture is very clear on the issue and science has never, despite the tons of research that has gone into it, found ANY statistically significant evidence that one can be born gay, i'd say one's feelings are not reliable.

personally i believe that homosexuality is a form of sexual addiction, a spiritual attack, and can even be a generational curse. those things can be broken.

i'm glad you have never acted upon those impulses. that says a great deal about you and your faith and your obedience to God. the vast majority of people in your shoes though, DO act upon their impulses. and even if they don't, they often become obsessed with the desire, the thought, of committing homosexual acts. those things may seem impossible to avoid, but even those are within our control. we are to take every thought captive to Christ. (not saying that is easy, and not saying any of us here have ever been even moderately successful at it, but it IS possible because it is commanded... and God doesn't command the impossible.)

so if a person allows that thought to take root in their head which becomes something they eventually identify themselves as, then yes, even THAT started with a choice.

and no action begins without thought.

just something to ponder.

[The Lorax]

then unless you TOLD someone, how would anyone know? aside from here, do you go around wearing some label on your clothing that identifies your sexual preference? of course not. so just BEING bi doesn't get held against you.

Ah yes. Don't ask, don't tell. This is what I have always done. Heck, in a world where people were only straight or bi, I would support this policy. But I don't think it's is fair to everyone. Back in college I played on a soccer team where people threw around homophobic remarks like it was nothing. That's how it is in most male groups: sport teams, frats, the army, etc. To a bunch of straight guys it was all in fun. Then, to our chagrin, the captain came out of the closet. If we had known he was gay we never would have said those things in the first place. But we didn't know, and through it all the captain had sat idly by and even forced a laugh occasionally so that we wouldn't suspect he was gay. It was dehumanizing, but in his case it was self-imposed. In the army, however, this kind of behavior is compulsory. Gays must either pretend or leave, and in both cases they will endure a lot of abuse.

do you need science to back up what you feel? maybe, maybe not. but the fact that scripture is very clear on the issue and science has never, despite the tons of research that has gone into it, found ANY statistically significant evidence that one can be born gay, i'd say one's feelings are not reliable.

One in eight people are left-handed. Right/left-handedness is not genetic--even identical twins can have different hands. Does this mean it must be a choice?

i'm glad you have never acted upon those impulses. that says a great deal about you and your faith and your obedience to God. the vast majority of people in your shoes though, DO act upon their impulses. and even if they don't, they often become obsessed with the desire, the thought, of committing homosexual acts. those things may seem impossible to avoid, but even those are within our control. we are to take every thought captive to Christ. (not saying that is easy, and not saying any of us here have ever been even moderately successful at it, but it IS possible because it is commanded... and God doesn't command the impossible.)

I thank God every day that I am not gay, because it must be a lot harder for them.

and no action begins without thought.

Well, autonomic nervous actions do, like our heartbeat and our digestion, but I won't split hairs here. We also have a variety of reflexes we can't control. Ask any straight guy in a bar when an attractive lady walks in. Something happens and it doesn't require thought.

so if a person allows that thought to take root in their head which becomes something they eventually identify themselves as, then yes, even THAT started with a choice.

You are trying very hard to pin gays as thought-criminals rather than victims of circumstance. There really isn't enough scientific evidence to strictly confirm either position, but I think the testimony of people involved overwhelmingly confirms the latter. It is also obvious why almost all homophobes maintain that gays DO have a choice: you can't hate someone for a choice they didn't make.

You've given me something to ponder, LadyC, and I give you this:

Did you ever wonder why the gay teens are four times more likely to commit suicide than straight ones? Or why so many gays spend their entire lives in the closet? Do you think these people would be this way if they really had a choice?

[rtwo]

latent homosexuality (or bisexuality) is a temptation; just like any other temptation. That's why acting on it is a sin, but not having the temptation. However, with any temptation, it is the responsibility of the Christian to take it to God, as often as he (or she) must; and to fight that temptation daily. In some cases, God chooses to remove that temptation; in some cases, He says "in your weakness, I am strong".

The thoughts may not be a choice, but the action is.

Regardless, on the topic at hand, it isn't the government's place to dictate a moral code of any kind -- it's as wrong for them to tell you not to be gay as it is for them to tell you not to hate somebody for it. Both are sin, but the government is an amoral entity (and really... let's look at the -people- in charge of government; do they really have a leg to stand on at all in dictating morals to -anyone-??), and is therefore incapable of making that sort of decision -- unless you're into the whole "big brother" scenario.