undone Posted May 10, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 45 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 819 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted May 10, 2007 I don't remember which news program it was on (it was one of the major networks like ABC, CBS, or NBC). But the debate was moderated by the news anchor and they allowed questions from the audience. The debate was edited but was fairly interesting anyway. I couldn't help but feel for Comfort/Cameron as I know what it's like after engaging in it here on Worthy. I kept saying to my wife, "I know exactly what the atheists are going to say, I've been there too many times" and "this is what I'm talking about, it's seems absolutely futile to try and talk sense to someone dead set on arguing against me". I've recently hit a lull in my desire to debate the existence of God and/or Christ anymore. I had purchased several books on the topic. Researched the internet. Tried to learn from some of the pros. But right now I'm feeling as though it's useless and that my time could be better spent on other endeavors. One thing that did happen as a result of my debate time, I became somewhat frustrated with the Christian teaching community (right or wrongly so). The truth is that we believe because He let's us believe. Throughout most of my Christian life, it seemed as though it was always implied by the teachers I listened to or read that the Christian leaders of the world had all the answers to counter all the arguments and the truth is, they don't. I felt misled to an extent. I'm the type of person who would rather hear the truth...all of it...good or bad. I suppose it's not their fault. They were teaching what they know, not what they don't know. Yet I was thoroughly embarrassed and frustrated when engaged in debate to learn what the reality was by failing. I'm perfectly OK with living by faith and faith alone. Yet I think we set ourselves up for failure when we operate with half the information. Especially young people as they go off into the world. They need to know the truth. Instead, they get blindsided by some atheist science professor or such and are swayed into thinking they were intentionally decieved by the Christian community. This makes me sick and angry. Oh well! Got that off my chest... Interesting that we are seeing a debate on national TV. The moderator seemed to think there was no clear winner and that few in the audience change their minds from the way they were thinking when they went in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted May 10, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Oh gee, I missed it! I will catch it on the recast on the ABC Nightline website. I receive the newsletters online from Comfort, and he said a couple days ago at the taping, that there were a lot of heckler types in the audience. He did say, also, that the mother of one of the atheistic debaters was in the front row and told him later that she was a Christian, blessed both he and Cameron, and told them she was praying for them! Go figure, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeCajunboy Posted May 10, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 113 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,430 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 33 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/24/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/28/1952 Share Posted May 10, 2007 I don't remember which news program it was on (it was one of the major networks like ABC, CBS, or NBC). But the debate was moderated by the news anchor and they allowed questions from the audience. The debate was edited but was fairly interesting anyway. I couldn't help but feel for Comfort/Cameron as I know what it's like after engaging in it here on Worthy. I kept saying to my wife, "I know exactly what the atheists are going to say, I've been there too many times" and "this is what I'm talking about, it's seems absolutely futile to try and talk sense to someone dead set on arguing against me". I've recently hit a lull in my desire to debate the existence of God and/or Christ anymore. I had purchased several books on the topic. Researched the internet. Tried to learn from some of the pros. But right now I'm feeling as though it's useless and that my time could be better spent on other endeavors. One thing that did happen as a result of my debate time, I became somewhat frustrated with the Christian teaching community (right or wrongly so). The truth is that we believe because He let's us believe. Throughout most of my Christian life, it seemed as though it was always implied by the teachers I listened to or read that the Christian leaders of the world had all the answers to counter all the arguments and the truth is, they don't. I felt misled to an extent. I'm the type of person who would rather hear the truth...all of it...good or bad. I suppose it's not their fault. They were teaching what they know, not what they don't know. Yet I was thoroughly embarrassed and frustrated when engaged in debate to learn what the reality was by failing. I'm perfectly OK with living by faith and faith alone. Yet I think we set ourselves up for failure when we operate with half the information. Especially young people as they go off into the world. They need to know the truth. Instead, they get blindsided by some atheist science professor or such and are swayed into thinking they were intentionally decieved by the Christian community. This makes me sick and angry. Oh well! Got that off my chest... Interesting that we are seeing a debate on national TV. The moderator seemed to think there was no clear winner and that few in the audience change their minds from the way they were thinking when they went in. [/quote I wouldn't be too concerned about whether we are able to convince others why use the "scientific" approach to reward their genius in an attempt for them to feel better about the sin they choose to live with or in. God says, "spread my word to all ends of the Earth," and "don't waste too much time on those who choose to dwell in sin." Personally, I choose to leave those for God. Many of those types of people would rather lavish their brilliant ignorance when there's a captive audience because the know that most will side with the scientific "facts" which I happen to believe personally are no more than well founded theories anyway. I do respect you efforts though, and I used to battle with the same determination set before you now. But the fact of the matter is that if you believe in God and that HE wrote the many commands for our benifit, we are not to debate God's word to one who refuses or is not ready to accept HIM. Better to be an example of Christ in those times and move on to those who want to hear the Word of God instead. If you feel like me, it hurts terribly just knowing that so many are determined to continue living in sin, rather than repenting of their sins, in hopes that God will keep HIS promises for a life of eterninty with HIM.....And I believe that HE is true to HIS word if we only make the effort. How do you explain something so personal as to try to convince someone else that they can experience a life of joy, happiness and even success just for turning your life over to God, and allowing HIM to work within you?? So very few are willing to relinquish what they think is permanent happiness in the secular world, because as long as they can buy their way through life for them it's easier than sacraficing their time, effort and giving up the pleasures of their sinful nature!!!! I do appreciate how you feel, but I've learned to come to peace with the secular world and just try to focus on God and concentrate on being the gentle spirit as Jesus was, that God wishes us to be as an example instead of an insisting, and demanding soul who gets little respect and wierd looks for my beliefs. If God wants me to deal with a specific case, HE will send them to me and I will know through "discernment" what HE entends for me to do and say! No more frustration, only joy and pleasure and contentment in the Lord God ! Be blessed Cajunboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted May 10, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted May 10, 2007 I don't remember which news program it was on (it was one of the major networks like ABC, CBS, or NBC). But the debate was moderated by the news anchor and they allowed questions from the audience. The debate was edited but was fairly interesting anyway. I couldn't help but feel for Comfort/Cameron as I know what it's like after engaging in it here on Worthy. I kept saying to my wife, "I know exactly what the atheists are going to say, I've been there too many times" and "this is what I'm talking about, it's seems absolutely futile to try and talk sense to someone dead set on arguing against me". I've recently hit a lull in my desire to debate the existence of God and/or Christ anymore. I had purchased several books on the topic. Researched the internet. Tried to learn from some of the pros. But right now I'm feeling as though it's useless and that my time could be better spent on other endeavors. One thing that did happen as a result of my debate time, I became somewhat frustrated with the Christian teaching community (right or wrongly so). The truth is that we believe because He let's us believe. Throughout most of my Christian life, it seemed as though it was always implied by the teachers I listened to or read that the Christian leaders of the world had all the answers to counter all the arguments and the truth is, they don't. I felt misled to an extent. I'm the type of person who would rather hear the truth...all of it...good or bad. I suppose it's not their fault. They were teaching what they know, not what they don't know. Yet I was thoroughly embarrassed and frustrated when engaged in debate to learn what the reality was by failing. I'm perfectly OK with living by faith and faith alone. Yet I think we set ourselves up for failure when we operate with half the information. Especially young people as they go off into the world. They need to know the truth. Instead, they get blindsided by some atheist science professor or such and are swayed into thinking they were intentionally decieved by the Christian community. This makes me sick and angry. Oh well! Got that off my chest... Interesting that we are seeing a debate on national TV. The moderator seemed to think there was no clear winner and that few in the audience change their minds from the way they were thinking when they went in. How many Christians on this board heard about William Lane Craig making a very daring move back in March? He went over to England, toured through their top educational institutes, debated a different atheist on a different subject every night...and still came out the victor. No one heard about it? That's because the media won't cover it. The media will continue to cover people like Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron, who are pseudo-apologists, and will continue to ignore actual qualified men who can debate and win against any atheist in this world. How do you think that debate would have gone had J.P. Moreland and Bill Craig been on there? It would have been over two minutes into it...which would have allowed for the two of them to take the focus off the debate and put more of an emphasis on the Gospel. Also, we must NEVER forget 1 Peter 3:15, which commands us to use actual logic, science, and reasoning in defending our faith. It is a high command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undone Posted May 10, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 45 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 819 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/01/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 10, 2007 I don't remember which news program it was on (it was one of the major networks like ABC, CBS, or NBC). But the debate was moderated by the news anchor and they allowed questions from the audience. The debate was edited but was fairly interesting anyway. I couldn't help but feel for Comfort/Cameron as I know what it's like after engaging in it here on Worthy. I kept saying to my wife, "I know exactly what the atheists are going to say, I've been there too many times" and "this is what I'm talking about, it's seems absolutely futile to try and talk sense to someone dead set on arguing against me". I've recently hit a lull in my desire to debate the existence of God and/or Christ anymore. I had purchased several books on the topic. Researched the internet. Tried to learn from some of the pros. But right now I'm feeling as though it's useless and that my time could be better spent on other endeavors. One thing that did happen as a result of my debate time, I became somewhat frustrated with the Christian teaching community (right or wrongly so). The truth is that we believe because He let's us believe. Throughout most of my Christian life, it seemed as though it was always implied by the teachers I listened to or read that the Christian leaders of the world had all the answers to counter all the arguments and the truth is, they don't. I felt misled to an extent. I'm the type of person who would rather hear the truth...all of it...good or bad. I suppose it's not their fault. They were teaching what they know, not what they don't know. Yet I was thoroughly embarrassed and frustrated when engaged in debate to learn what the reality was by failing. I'm perfectly OK with living by faith and faith alone. Yet I think we set ourselves up for failure when we operate with half the information. Especially young people as they go off into the world. They need to know the truth. Instead, they get blindsided by some atheist science professor or such and are swayed into thinking they were intentionally decieved by the Christian community. This makes me sick and angry. Oh well! Got that off my chest... Interesting that we are seeing a debate on national TV. The moderator seemed to think there was no clear winner and that few in the audience change their minds from the way they were thinking when they went in. How many Christians on this board heard about William Lane Craig making a very daring move back in March? He went over to England, toured through their top educational institutes, debated a different atheist on a different subject every night...and still came out the victor. No one heard about it? That's because the media won't cover it. The media will continue to cover people like Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron, who are pseudo-apologists, and will continue to ignore actual qualified men who can debate and win against any atheist in this world. How do you think that debate would have gone had J.P. Moreland and Bill Craig been on there? It would have been over two minutes into it...which would have allowed for the two of them to take the focus off the debate and put more of an emphasis on the Gospel. Also, we must NEVER forget 1 Peter 3:15, which commands us to use actual logic, science, and reasoning in defending our faith. It is a high command. As you said, I did not know that. I only saw the last half of the show. As I watched, I wondered why they chose Comfort/Cameron. I have respect for those guys but surely there are more highly qualified folks available. I assumed it was because of Kirk Cameron's celebrity status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrs Posted May 10, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 45 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,081 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 53 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/13/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 10, 2007 As you said, I did not know that. I only saw the last half of the show. As I watched, I wondered why they chose Comfort/Cameron. I have respect for those guys but surely there are more highly qualified folks available. I assumed it was because of Kirk Cameron's celebrity status. Comfort and Cameron were on the show because Ray challenged the atheists to a debate. The founders of the blasphemy challenge were defiantly mocking God and Comfort choose to confront them on it and also use it as a witnessing opportunity. People may complain ... but at least someone did something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undone Posted May 10, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 45 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 819 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/01/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 10, 2007 As you said, I did not know that. I only saw the last half of the show. As I watched, I wondered why they chose Comfort/Cameron. I have respect for those guys but surely there are more highly qualified folks available. I assumed it was because of Kirk Cameron's celebrity status. Comfort and Cameron were on the show because Comfort challenged the atheists to a debate. Those two atheists were defiantly mocking God and he choose to confront them on it and also use it as a witnessing opportunity. Ahhh, thanks for the information... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Great job! They got John 3:16 broadcast uncut and coast-to-coast, at least over the internet! They gave their position on God and salvation with love and with passion. These two Antichrist folks broke my heart (again) over their blatant spiritual deadness! Their hatred of God and their semi-veiled hatred of his servants showed! They did their best to contributed their side to this discussion. I grieve with their loved ones and I add my prayers to the families of these two dear lost souls for their salvation. The moderator's atheistic probes of The Christian Brother cracked me up! He just gave more opportunities for the Christian witness to The LORD and to His Creation! I was rolling in the aisles in Fresno as God's Hand hovered over this debate! What Satan meant for evil, God meant for Glory! God Is Good. My Worthy Brother made a suggestion. So I'll take a quick look around and into 1 Peter 3:15. Wow! The Word Talks About Fearless Suffering For Him "But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;" 1 Peter 3:14 The Word Talks About A Sanctified Heart And About A Meek And Respectful Testimony of Our Hope In Jesus Something I need to always remember - Put Jesus First, Middle and LAST "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear." 1 Peter 3:15 The Word Talks About Countering Evil Accusations By Abiding In Jesus "Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ." 1 Peter 3:16 The Word Talks About Innocent Suffering Preferred Over Just Punishment "For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing." 1 Peter 3:17 The Word Talks About Our Lord Suffering For Our Sins So He Can Bring Us To God Glories Day! Maranatha! Hallelujah! "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:" 1 Peter 3:18 The LORD bless thee, and keep thee: The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee: The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace. And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27 Love, Your Brother Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedeemedByHim Posted May 10, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 63 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,157 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/24/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/25/1982 Share Posted May 10, 2007 I don't remember which news program it was on (it was one of the major networks like ABC, CBS, or NBC). But the debate was moderated by the news anchor and they allowed questions from the audience. The debate was edited but was fairly interesting anyway. I couldn't help but feel for Comfort/Cameron as I know what it's like after engaging in it here on Worthy. I kept saying to my wife, "I know exactly what the atheists are going to say, I've been there too many times" and "this is what I'm talking about, it's seems absolutely futile to try and talk sense to someone dead set on arguing against me". I've recently hit a lull in my desire to debate the existence of God and/or Christ anymore. I had purchased several books on the topic. Researched the internet. Tried to learn from some of the pros. But right now I'm feeling as though it's useless and that my time could be better spent on other endeavors. One thing that did happen as a result of my debate time, I became somewhat frustrated with the Christian teaching community (right or wrongly so). The truth is that we believe because He let's us believe. Throughout most of my Christian life, it seemed as though it was always implied by the teachers I listened to or read that the Christian leaders of the world had all the answers to counter all the arguments and the truth is, they don't. I felt misled to an extent. I'm the type of person who would rather hear the truth...all of it...good or bad. I suppose it's not their fault. They were teaching what they know, not what they don't know. Yet I was thoroughly embarrassed and frustrated when engaged in debate to learn what the reality was by failing. I'm perfectly OK with living by faith and faith alone. Yet I think we set ourselves up for failure when we operate with half the information. Especially young people as they go off into the world. They need to know the truth. Instead, they get blindsided by some atheist science professor or such and are swayed into thinking they were intentionally decieved by the Christian community. This makes me sick and angry. Oh well! Got that off my chest... Interesting that we are seeing a debate on national TV. The moderator seemed to think there was no clear winner and that few in the audience change their minds from the way they were thinking when they went in. I missed it but I think if you go to their website, livingwaters.com you can see it. that is what a friend of mine said. I have not had time to check it out, but feel free to. And if someone does before I do, please post and say if it is on their site.... tina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted May 10, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 10, 2007 Comfort and Cameron were on the show because Ray challenged the atheists to a debate. The founders of the blasphemy challenge were defiantly mocking God and Comfort choose to confront them on it and also use it as a witnessing opportunity. People may complain ... but at least someone did something. Shalom Smiles, Amen and amen!! This is the point! At least they DID something! they got out there and stood up for Jesus and on the foundation of the Word. I disagree that someone "more qualified" should have been there... we are each qualified by the Holy Spirit to speak His truth from the Word! We just need to be willing to step out and DO IT! Listen, this is the truth: G-d does not need our ABILITY But G-d desires our AVAILABILITY!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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