for those that believe you can lose your salvation

[exrockstar]

how do you do that?

how do you know you did?

you stop going to church? you go to a club? youre not nice anymore? you stop praying?

im curious ... 3xR0c|<stAr

[exrockstar]

I think when the believer willfully sins he or she is then in danger of no longer having a sacrifice for their sins which would be Jesus. We all sin and fall short of the Glory but if we continue to sin by choice then this will separate us from God. Other than this we will stumble and we will fall and make plenty of mistakes but once we have the knowledge and choose to follow the path of sin then this is different altogether.

so our actions determine if we're in/out of salvation?

[dugmando]

Hello exrockstar,

Hope you and all are having a Blessed Day!

If I may I would like to do as you do in your replies to many by asking you a question, take it a some what silly one but it has a point.

Often times the Christian life is rightfully so compared to a walk or a journey. One step at a time, one day at a time all walking toward the Son.

Now if I choose of my own free will to turn around and go back away from Him, which way am I walkin how many steps do I have to take to be going away from the way I was heading?

If you or I where to do this in a real sense the second you choose to reverse your course you have started in a different direction and if you stopped at a certain point and walked in the opposite direction its not long before you are out of site and hearing range from your stopping point.

Dugmando

[dugmando]

Might I also add IMHO All Christians face a daily battle with sin so to me it is not a oops I made a terrible mistake today so I must not be going to Heaven.

To willfully and to purposely choose to walk away from the Grace of God, YOU not a third party, not satan, not anyone but YOU have chosen to pluck yourself out of Grace and the Only Hope for mankind.

This truly would then fit the specs for blasphmy of the Holy Ghost

Dugmando

[LossForWords]

I think when the believer willfully sins he or she is then in danger of no longer having a sacrifice for their sins which would be Jesus. We all sin and fall short of the Glory but if we continue to sin by choice then this will separate us from God. Other than this we will stumble and we will fall and make plenty of mistakes but once we have the knowledge and choose to follow the path of sin then this is different altogether.

so our actions determine if we're in/out of salvation?

So...if you're saved, and you go out and knowingly, and pre-meditatingly murder your neighbor, and you don't ask for forgiveness from God and face up to the consequences then you still go to Heaven right?...that's just silly...of course your actions will determine whether you're saved or not!

[Akiko]

So...if you're saved, and you go out and knowingly, and pre-meditatingly murder your neighbor, and you don't ask for forgiveness from God and face up to the consequences then you still go to Heaven right?...that's just silly...of course your actions will determine whether you're saved or not!

Yes. You still go to Heaven. You've just turned your back on God. We have all turned our backs on God.

http://www.worthyboards.com/index.php?show...mp;#entry861851 If needed, I'll copy-paste all my posts from that thread to here. Most of the main stuff is below.

"(35)Can anything ever separate us from Christ's love? Does it mean he no longer loves us if we have trouble or calamity, or are persecuted, or hungry, or destitute, or in danger, or threatened with death? (36) (As the Scriptures say, "For your sake we are killed every day; we are being slaughtered like sheep.") (37) No, despite all these things, overwhelming victory is ours through Christ, who loved us.

(38)And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from God's love. Neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither our fears for today nor our worries about tomorrow, not even the powers of hell can separate us from God's love. (39) No power in the sky above or in the earth below, indeed, nothing in all creation will ever be able to separate us from the love of God that is revealed in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 8:35-39)

As has been said... having to be saved multiple times (sinning and getting blotted out of the Book, then repenting and getting back in) means that Jesus' first sacrifice wasn't good enough. It can't cover our sins. Which is a total falsehood; Jesus was the perfect sacrifice.

He covers all of our sins, what we've done and what we will do. God knows that we will sin. If God knew that He was going to blot us out of the Book, why would be save us in the first place?

Jesus preached that you were saved by grace and mercy, not by earning it. The Bible says, "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." I'd like to note that it doesn't say, "Unless you're already a Christian, you will have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Otherwise, you've got to be perfect." It says that everyone has. God forgives us multiple times, as Jesus says when he talks about the seventy times seven... which hardly means that you should forgive your friends 490 times, and on the 491st... you're toasted. Turn your back and refuse to forgive. Jesus implied that you were to forgive them so many times, it could not be counted.

Another main point that has been glossed over is that Jesus made a NEW covanent, so that we didn't have to sacrifice to atone for our sins. It's already done. We don't have to worry about it. Quite honestly, this seems to me like a human trying to be "good enough" for God to keep them. Sorry if I stepped on your toes there.

The context of the Old Testament verses is under the old covanent, where you had to sacrifice to atone for your sins. No sacrifice, no forgivnees. (My assumption is that when you sacrified, you acknowledged your sin. If you didn't, than you are spitting in God's face and spurning Him).

However, Jesus came and made a new covanent. John 10:28-30 reads,

"(28)I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them away from me, (29) for my Father has given them to me, and he is more powerful than anyone else. No one can snatch them from the Father

[exrockstar]

Might I also add IMHO All Christians face a daily battle with sin so to me it is not a oops I made a terrible mistake today so I must not be going to Heaven.

To willfully and to purposely choose to walk away from the Grace of God, YOU not a third party, not satan, not anyone but YOU have chosen to pluck yourself out of Grace and the Only Hope for mankind.

This truly would then fit the specs for blasphmy of the Holy Ghost

Dugmando

so when you pray and ask forgiveness of something, you think the grace of God forgives you?

or you're basing salvation on being "under the grace of God?"

[Guest LadyC]

how do you do that?

how do you know you did?

you stop going to church? you go to a club? youre not nice anymore? you stop praying?

im curious ... 3xR0c|<stAr

i think i've answered this before.... in the other thread. but since you're asking again, salvation can't be LOST. to lose something is unintentional. your salvation can't be SNATCHED... to have something snatched from you means you have it stolen and it's totally out of your control.

but one CAN walk away from the gift they've been given. they can harden their hearts towards God and cease to listen to the conviction of the Holy Spirit.

this is not easy, it doesn't happen quickly (because God will do everything in His power to woo you back) and it doesn't happen accidentally. it has to be a concious choice, one in which you work hard to ignore God for a long time. and once you succeed, you no longer hear the Holy Spirit, no longer have any care about your eternal soul, because God has removed the Holy Spirit from you. this is called apostacy. it is entirely Biblical. there is NO scripture that an OSAS'er in context that changes this fact. all scriptures that deny the ability for one to walk away from salvation are ones which are taken OUT of context by the person using them.

however, not a single verse in scripture that indicates that one can walk away from God has any affect at all on the verses that OSAS'ers often use to try to disprove apostacy. because not one of them even begin to imply that one can "lose" salvation, that one can be "snatched" from God's hand, or anything else.

now the thing is, only God and the individual know when God has removed His Holy Spirit from the person. nobody else can look at a person and make such a judgement because we don't know what is really going on in the person's heart or head. we don't know if God is still working on them to bring them back into the fold. i know i ran hard and fast from God for over ten years, and i STILL felt His conviction, and a longing for Him. for someone else it may take a matter of months, or maybe a matter of 50 years insted of ten. it's all in God's timing. HE ALONE knows our hearts and whether or not we will ever return to Him.

the individual in question can know.... but probably is unaware of it, all they know is they no longer have any sense of conviction for their sins at all.... to them it's probably just some huge relief.

[exrockstar]

The fact you need forgiveness and cleansing shows guilt and being dirty, and nothing unclean will enter heaven. It takes grace for God to forgive you, because the penalty for sin is death. It is only by grace that anyone will ever enter into heaven.

i see now where you stand. thanks.

im going to wait for dumango.

[exrockstar]

i think i've answered this before.... in the other thread. but since you're asking again, salvation can't be LOST. to lose something is unintentional. your salvation can't be SNATCHED... to have something snatched from you means you have it stolen and it's totally out of your control.

since they asked me questions i felt i should ask them.