Kephale in Ephesians 5

[OopsMartin]

Due to extensive confusion and disruption in another thread over the desire to directly discuss the meanings of kephale..... this thread is open to discuss it. However, I would like to keep the discussion to the meaning in Ephesians. However, using other Scriptures that contain a similar set up of "body of" and "head of" metaphors is acceptable.

Have a go........

[Neopatriarch]

Due to extensive confusion and disruption in another thread over the desire to directly discuss the meanings of kephale..... this thread is open to discuss it. However, I would like to keep the discussion to the meaning in Ephesians. However, using other Scriptures that contain a similar set up of "body of" and "head of" metaphors is acceptable.

Have a go........

Have you declined the soapbox debate offer?

[OopsMartin]

Due to extensive confusion and disruption in another thread over the desire to directly discuss the meanings of kephale..... this thread is open to discuss it. However, I would like to keep the discussion to the meaning in Ephesians. However, using other Scriptures that contain a similar set up of "body of" and "head of" metaphors is acceptable.

Have a go........

Have you declined the soapbox debate offer?

AK declined it. We cannot agree on the format.

[apothanein kerdos]

Then I'll just re-post my arguments:

Everyone keeps arguing that kephale means "source" or "origin." This commits the error of "semantic obsolescence." In Classical Greek, even in Classical Greek lexicons (such as LSJ), kephale DOES mean "source." However, the New Testament was composed quite a few centuries after the Classical period, and was written in Koine Greek, not Classical Greek. By the time the Bible was written in Koine Greek, kephale had changed from "source" to "authority."

Thus, any argument saying that kephale means "origin" is based upon an earlier meaning of the word and not the meaning of the word at that time.

People who use kephale as a justification for an egalitarian position go on to commit the fallacy of an appeal to an unlikely meaning (I must mention that D.A. Carson is the one who has coined these fallacies, though they are also in common use for logical fallacies, he is the one that first applied them to exegetical studies).

Even if we ignore my previous point, that kephale as "source" can only work in Classical Greek, the debate can still continue. For instance, even when we look to the LSJ lexicon (again, a Classical Greek lexicon) we find that the only time it documents kephale meaning origin is in Fragmenta Orphilocorum (400 B.C.). This, it should be noted, is the only time kephale is used in its singular form to mean "origin." In Classical Greek for kephale to be used as "source" it is always written in its plural form (kephalai). Again, the only time we see it used to mean "origin" in its singular form is from a document that was written 400 years before Christ. That would be the equivalent to using Old English to determine the meaning of words today.

In other words, there isn't enough evidence to dictate that, "This word means this." One reference, which could easily be a misuse of the word or a grammatical error on part of the scribe, is not enough to justify using kephale to mean "source." Considering we only have ONE manuscript, dated 400 years or more before Christ, that uses kephale to mean source (remember, all other instances are plural), it makes no sense to take this one Classical Greek meaning, which could have been a mistake on the author, and apply it to every instance of kephale in the New Testament Koine writing.

The concept of head as "source" is well documented in both classical and Christian antiquity and has been long accepted by scholars. Some evangelicals, however, have shown a reluctance to deal with the data

[apothanein kerdos]

Due to extensive confusion and disruption in another thread over the desire to directly discuss the meanings of kephale..... this thread is open to discuss it. However, I would like to keep the discussion to the meaning in Ephesians. However, using other Scriptures that contain a similar set up of "body of" and "head of" metaphors is acceptable.

Have a go........

Have you declined the soapbox debate offer?

OopsMartin refused to put limits on the debate. He apparently lacks the skill necessary to be able to sum up his position in 18,000 words or less.

[Neopatriarch]

Then I'll just re-post my arguments:

I re-post mine too (with some adjustments and additions):

Let me cover some examples of kephale in the LXX, consider appeals to expert opinion, look at kephale in two other verses in Ephesians, and a quote from OopsMartin himself.

The Examples

In his book Evangelical Feminism & Biblical Truth, Wayne Grudem lists several examples from the LXX where the translators chose to translate the Hebrew word

[OopsMartin]

Great start guys.

Had to laugh at this though:

Finally, OopsMartin agrees that kephale can mean head. From post #286 in the Feminism is anti-Christ thread OopsMartin wrote, regarding the above passages in Deuteronomy:

"In the two passages quoted the metaphor is between the head and the tail. This is indeed a metaphor of leader and follower."

I've always stated that kephale means "head". That is it's primary meaning, the head on ones shoulders. You must mean finally you saw where I acknowledge that it could mean leader. And I've always acknowledged that kephale has a range of meanings when used in metaphor, authority over (or leader) being one of them. A whole lot depends upon contextual usage.

At any rate, this is very good. I may not get to much today, but

[EricH]

there is a thread running covering this topic. We don't need 2 or 3