Paul Problems

[melvin2007]

No wonder...

And to think that I thought he was gender-biased...

[melvin2007]

No wonder...

And to think that I thought he was gender-biased...

[apothanein kerdos]

And here we see a perfect example of someone's presupposition playing into their interpretation. Melvin doesn't want to change his view of how gender equality works, so he simply shifts what Paul meant.

[firehill]

And here we see a perfect example of someone's presupposition playing into their interpretation. Melvin doesn't want to change his view of how gender equality works, so he simply shifts what Paul meant.

The post above is a prime example of 1) someone not willing to deal with and accept the very context Paul wrote the passage in and 2) shifting the argument from the evidence (the context of the passage) to one's character. What's new?

Paul did not leave Timothy behind in Ephesus to stop the false teachers AND to stop all women who are teaching correct biblical doctrine….he only left Timothy behind to stop the false teachers from teaching false doctrine (1 Tim. 1:3) http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2006/12/02/wh...hy-211-15-mean/

1:3When I was leaving for Macedonia, I asked you to stay on in Ephesus and warn certain people there to stop spreading their false teachings.

[melvin2007]

Hi AK,

But that was what Paul meant wasn't it?

Unless you have a different interpretation?

[apothanein kerdos]

Hi AK,

But that was what Paul meant wasn't it?

Unless you have a different interpretation?

What Paul meant is that, in church, men have authority over women. Authority has nothing to do with equality. It has nothing to do with who is right or wrong, who is going to Heaven, who is being blessed, etc. It simply deals with governorship.

There is no historic context that would change the modern day application on this passage, especially considering there are eight other verses, all in different epistles, that support the idea of male authority in church and in the home. In other words, we'd have to go through all of Paul's epistles and change what he means.

This, again, does not deal with equality but instead with authority. When the Bible speaks of equality, it is speaking of ontological and soteriological equality, not equality in function and role. That is to say, men are not made better than women, are not inherently higher than women, and cannot find Christ easier than women - they are equal in all those aspects. They simply have different roles to fulfill.

Firehill's argument doesn't make any sense when compared to the rest of scripture. In the rest of scripture, Paul says, "false teachers" when condemning false teachers. In this instance, he doesn't say that. Thus, you have to ask why Paul changed his writing/dictation style in this epistle. Plus, it doesn't fit with the context of the passage either, which is dealing with proper function and government within the church, not false teachers.

The fact is, women are not to have authority over men in a church. Doesn't mean they're not equal, just means they have different roles.

Think of it this way: You're in high school I'm assuming (from your age). You have various teachers. If your teacher tells you to do something, such as, write on the white board, you should comply or you could face consequences, correct? In other words, you can't tell your teacher, "I don't feel like learning this today." Instead, your teacher has authority over you.

Does this mean your teacher is higher than you as a person Does it mean he has more rights? Does it mean he is closer to God than you? Does it mean he is more spiritual than you? No...it just means he has authority over you in this one area...the reason he does is so the classroom will function. It is the same way in church.

[Ovedya]

Oh no.....Please....for the sake of sanity, let's leave this one alone.

For now at least.