Any thoughts on the Creation Museum?

[Copper Scroll]

Putting up a museum that reinforces your beliefs is not an effective way to sway scientists

we're not trying to "sway" hardened atheists/agnostics....apart from supernatural intervention, they're a lost cause, and God considers them fools

Then what exactly are you trying to do? In general, educated people are going to follow the scientists' lead on issues that have to do with the natural world, which is reasonable. I can see this museum appealing only to creationists who (in your words) already have their minds made up. Is this just a $27 million dollar exercise in let's-feel-good-about-being-creationists?

[cwcrenshaw]

first off, not all scientists are long age Darwinists, so you can discontinue using that term in a general sense, it's not accurate

second, just as Darwin's ideas slowly permeated the mainstream 150 years ago, the purpose of the museum is to present a Biblical alternative to the fairy tale of "goo-to-you", especially for young people who are being indoctinated with naturalistic religion and nihilism

I have to take issue with your statements. First, Darwin's ideas didn't slowly permeate, they shook the scientific and religious communities to their core and the church was quick to demonize him. Secondly, "the purpose of the museum is to present a Biblical alternative"...you act as if Darwin came first and the Bible was just discovered. The fact is that the museum offers nothing more than religious propaganda based on nothing more than vague and biased pseudo-science. Dinosaurs with saddles on...seriously?

[Copper Scroll]

Then what exactly are you trying to do? In general, educated people are going to follow the scientists' lead on issues

first off, not all scientists are long age Darwinists, so you can discontinue using that term in a general sense, it's not accurate

second, just as Darwin's ideas slowly permeated the mainstream 150 years ago, the purpose of the museum is to present a Biblical alternative to the fairy tale of "goo-to-you", especially for young people who are being indoctinated with naturalistic religion and nihilism

John MacArthur sums it up well in this clip

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2006/0403macarthur.asp

To your first point: Okay. I should have said "most scientists".

To your second point: Doesn't the Bible do a good enough job of presenting the "Biblical altnerative"? How is a $27 million dollar museum necessary?

[Copper Scroll]

To your second point: Doesn't the Bible do a good enough job of presenting the "Biblical altnerative"? How is a $27 million dollar museum necessary?

how much money do you think has been spent disseminating the myth of Darwinism through media, museums, etc?

I can tell you...billions...your heroes are hypocrites if they're coming after us for financial irresponsiblity

You didn't answer my question. Nevermind.

I'm sorry but if a young person is on the fence about these issues (un-indoctrined either way), she is much more likely to believe (a) information gained through the skepticism and rigor of the scientific method and supported by most experts in the fields of biology and geology than (b) information whose primary source is a 2 millenia old religious text produced by a people who didn't know that the earth was round.

[cwcrenshaw]

that's nonsense, you don't know what you're talking about...it actually took quite awhile, well after Darwin's death, for his philosophy to become maintream accepted "science"...actually, the belief in endless long ages and naturalism was certainly nothing new, that was an ancient pagan belief daing back for thousands of years

Darwin sparked a massive amount of public interest, both good and bad, with his book... I refer you to wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaction_to_Darwin's_theory

btw, I'm not talking about speciation, there was nothing revolutionary about that, and that's all the bitter old hermit saw at the Galapagos, anyway..but the ludicrous philosophy of microbes to man was, and still is, absurd...in fact most people in 2007 still don't believe it, despite relentless preaching by the media

That's because "most people" aren't educated enough to understand the complexity that goes into saying something like "microbes to man"...of course it sounds absurd to a regular person. You will find that out of those who are infact educated enough to understand what they are talking about, that the vast, vast majority support Darwinism. Funny you should use the word "preaching" though because it has been the church who began the ad hominem attacks. You certainly sound objective about the matter when you call him a "bitter old hermit".

sounds like the fairy tale of Darwinism to me

have you actually visited the museumit? the reviews, even from the secular media, have been overwhelmingly positive

No I haven't visited the museum and I don't intend to. I have visited their website and seen numerous reviews and photos and I wouldn't pay the price of admission because I don't want one red cent of mine going to support such blatant lies.

[Copper Scroll]

I'm sorry but if a young person is on the fence about these issues (un-indoctrined either way), she is much more likely to believe (a) information gained through the skepticism and rigor of the scientific method and supported by most experts in the fields of biology and geology than (b) information whose primary source is a 2 millenia old religious text produced by a people who didn't know that the earth was round.

and yet God delights in that...the scriptures are Divinely inspired

I Corinthians 3

Do not deceive yourselves. If any one of you thinks he is wise by the standards of this age, he should become a "fool" so that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight. As it is written: "He catches the wise in their craftiness"; and again, "The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile." So then, no more boasting about men!

science does not and can not resolve ultiate questions...your faith in man and "science" is a road to nowhere

If it's all so futile, then why waste so much money combatting it for space in the public forum? You still have not demonstrated what makes a museum like this necessary.

[cwcrenshaw]

the vast, vast majority support Darwinism.

the vast majority of people reject God, reject the gospel, and are on the road to hell...what's your point? you're missing the big picture...get your eyes off the floor, think in terms of eternal, spiritual issues...this life is a vapor, this world will pass away...your world is tiny

My eyes are wide open and I take the entire universe into account when establishing my beliefs about existence...I would encourage you to get your eyes off of the bronze-aged text and take a look around you....think in terms of what you can see and touch.

[cwcrenshaw]

.think in terms of what you can see and touch.

that preccupation leads to death...why are you on this forum? seriously...

2 Corinthians 4

It is written: "I believed; therefore I have spoken."With that same spirit of faith we also believe and therefore speak, because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you in his presence. All this is for your benefit, so that the grace that is reaching more and more people may cause thanksgiving to overflow to the glory of God.

Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.

Can I offer some advise? When debating someone who doesn't believe in the Bible, try to avoid making a point using the Bible...it's not too convincing. Why am I on this forum? Because many people have questions about/for atheists on this board...I want to make sure they are answered correctly and help correct false stereotypes. I must ask then, why are you on this board? To preach to people who already believe in the same relgion as you do? How Exciting that must be.

[Copper Scroll]

If it's all so futile, then why waste so much money combatting it for space in the public forum? You still have not demonstrated what makes a museum like this necessary.

Peace CopperScroll --

Why does anyone need to demostrate that it is necessary?

What museums really are "necessary" ... ?

Peace to you, brother.

Good question. Typically, museums draw on a host of information sources for content, bringing all this information together under one roof and under one topic. It is an easy way of casually consuming a lot of complex and otherwise spread-out information.

I don't see the same thing happening here. What we have here is a museum that primarily draws on one source--the book of Genesis. A person could just as easily get this information from Genesis without having dinosaurs with saddles thrown in for an added flavor of ridiculous and baseless (Flinstones-inspired) speculation.

[cwcrenshaw]

My eyes are wide open and I take the entire universe into account when establishing my beliefs about existence...I would encourage you to get your eyes off of the bronze-aged text and take a look around you....

think in terms of what you can see and touch

.

Peace CWCrenshaw --

No doubt you have heard this analogy before, but it is still a response to your challenge, none-the-less.

I have a brother. He has a name. I know my brother becuase I have talked with him, spent time with him, touched him, heard him, seen him, even smelled him! I have experienced him with all my senses and therefore I know him to exist, without doubt, just as you encourage others to do.

Yet you do not know my brother. If I told you about him, you would not have my personal experience of observation and interaction with him. You only have the choice to believe me or not believe me when I tell you he exists. Until you meet him for yourself. Then you too, will know him by your senses, by observation, and by reason.

The same is true with God. I cannot prove to you by my own personal interaction with Him that He is real. But if you choose, you can know Him just the way you describe - think in terms of what you can see and touch. Then you too, can KNOW Him.

shlomo

Yes I have heard that before and it is a good point. I agree you that the same can be said about God, as it can be said about anything. But I must say that I would have a much easier time believing that your brother exists than an invisible sky god who creates and controls everything. I hate to be so blunt about it but some situations are much easier to believe than others.