Jump to content
Join us for Throwback Thursdays in Worthy Chat! Join us at 8 PM EST every Thursday. ×
IGNORED

Invitation to atheists

methinkshe

By methinkshe
in Apologetics

 Share

Recommended Posts

methinkshe

methinkshe

Posted
  • Group:  Senior Member
  • Followers:  1
  • Topic Count:  32
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  679
  • Content Per Day:  0.10
  • Reputation:   14
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  03/02/2007
  • Status:  Offline
Posted

Would any atheist care to discuss Truth with me?

Firstly, we must agree on a definition of truth. Here is mine.

Truth is a 100% accurate account/record of all existence and all events.

This definition is based on the following:

That without existence there is nothing to account/record.

That without events, existence is at a standstill and therefore truth stands still.

Therefore truth is an accurate account of what IS and what OCCURS/HAS OCCURRED

If you have a better definition of truth on which to base a debate concerning truth, let is discuss.

Ruth

  • Replies 108
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Ishamael

Ishamael

Posted
  • Group:  Nonbeliever
  • Followers:  0
  • Topic Count:  0
  • Topics Per Day:  0
  • Content Count:  85
  • Content Per Day:  0.01
  • Reputation:   0
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  06/18/2007
  • Status:  Offline
Posted

Does your truth includes what will occur in future as well?

methinkshe

methinkshe

Posted
  • Group:  Senior Member
  • Followers:  1
  • Topic Count:  32
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  679
  • Content Per Day:  0.10
  • Reputation:   14
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  03/02/2007
  • Status:  Offline
  • Author
Posted
Does your truth includes what will occur in future as well?

Read the definition I have posted for "truth". It has nothing to do with your truth, my truth, or Bart Simpson's truth. I will repost my definition:

Truth is a 100% accurate account/record of all existence and all events.

Ruth

Ishamael

Ishamael

Posted
  • Group:  Nonbeliever
  • Followers:  0
  • Topic Count:  0
  • Topics Per Day:  0
  • Content Count:  85
  • Content Per Day:  0.01
  • Reputation:   0
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  06/18/2007
  • Status:  Offline
Posted

That definition is not accurate.

All events and all existance.

All of events, that ALREADY occured?

Or all of events, that had occured, are occuring, and will occur in the future?

All existance - all that existed until THIS point of time?

Or all that existed, exists and will exist in the future?

methinkshe

methinkshe

Posted
  • Group:  Senior Member
  • Followers:  1
  • Topic Count:  32
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  679
  • Content Per Day:  0.10
  • Reputation:   14
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  03/02/2007
  • Status:  Offline
  • Author
Posted
That definition is not accurate.

All events and all existance.

All of events, that ALREADY occured?

Or all of events, that had occured, are occuring, and will occur in the future?

All existance - all that existed until THIS point of time?

Or all that existed, exists and will exist in the future?

Fair enough, if you don't like my definition of truth, come up with a better one.

Since truth is only appreciated by mankind (unless you wish to propose another species that appreciates truth) and since we cannot foretell the future, it seems to me that it is not unreasonable to limit a definition of truth to what has actually occurred. For instance, you can tell me the truth about what you are doing as you read this post. You can tell me the truth about what you did five minutes ago. You cannot tell me what you will be doing in five minutes time. That can only ever be suppostion. So in terms of truth as we understand the concept, it is necessarily limited to what is and what has been. If you have a better defintion of truth then I'd be pleased to discuss it with you.

Ruth

Ishamael

Ishamael

Posted
  • Group:  Nonbeliever
  • Followers:  0
  • Topic Count:  0
  • Topics Per Day:  0
  • Content Count:  85
  • Content Per Day:  0.01
  • Reputation:   0
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  06/18/2007
  • Status:  Offline
Posted

In my personal understanding, truth is any logical statement, that is correct at the moment of issuing the statement.

"Right now, it`s hot here." - me saying this would be truth, as it is over 30 C here right now at this particular moment.

"I have gold-plated dirigible." - me saying this would not be truth, since at this particular moment, I can not produce correct information on whereabouts of my gold-plated dirigible.

___

When fuzzy logic comes into play, concept of truth becomes a bit more convoluted.

For example, statement "I am god." for me would be truth, but for you would be false.

This occurs, when concepts in question have ambigous/fuzzy definition.

___

People subscribing to some forms of faith have the concept of "ultimate truth". To the best of my understanding, this concept includes precise information about universe on -inf -> + inf scale by all dimensions including time.

This concept I disagree with, as it`s defintion contradicts the postulates of quantum physics.

When "truth" is used to refer to the entirety of information in universe, it could only be described in probabilities, not in rigid figures.

At this point, I claim, that word "truth" is used incorrectly, since it is binary (truth/false), and can`t be used to examine probabilities.

methinkshe

methinkshe

Posted
  • Group:  Senior Member
  • Followers:  1
  • Topic Count:  32
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  679
  • Content Per Day:  0.10
  • Reputation:   14
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  03/02/2007
  • Status:  Offline
  • Author
Posted
In my personal understanding, truth is any logical statement, that is correct at the moment of issuing the statement.

"Right now, it`s hot here." - me saying this would be truth, as it is over 30 C here right now at this particular moment.

"I have gold-plated dirigible." - me saying this would not be truth, since at this particular moment, I can not produce correct information on whereabouts of my gold-plated dirigible.

___

When fuzzy logic comes into play, concept of truth becomes a bit more convoluted.

For example, statement "I am god." for me would be truth, but for you would be false.

This occurs, when concepts in question have ambigous/fuzzy definition.

___

People subscribing to some forms of faith have the concept of "ultimate truth". To the best of my understanding, this concept includes precise information about universe on -inf -> + inf scale by all dimensions including time.

This concept I disagree with, as it`s defintion contradicts the postulates of quantum physics.

When "truth" is used to refer to the entirety of information in universe, it could only be described in probabilities, not in rigid figures.

At this point, I claim, that word "truth" is used incorrectly, since it is binary (truth/false), and can`t be used to examine probabilities.

No, you are saying what you believe the truth to be and not defining what truth is. I am saying that first we must agree on a definition of truth. What do we mean when we use the word "truth". What exactly is truth? When I say "chair" you know instantly what I am talking about. It is simply not possible to discuss what is the truth unless we first understand what truth is.

BTW, is English your first language? I ask, because if it is not it may be very difficult for me to explain such nuances as what is the truth versus what truth is.

Ruth

methinkshe

methinkshe

Posted
  • Group:  Senior Member
  • Followers:  1
  • Topic Count:  32
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  679
  • Content Per Day:  0.10
  • Reputation:   14
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  03/02/2007
  • Status:  Offline
  • Author
Posted
The most adequate comprehension of reality that man's mind and reason make accessible to him. Man is fallible and can never become omniscient or absolutely certain that what he considers as certain truth is not error. The criterion of truth is that it works even if nobody is prepared to acknowledge it.

<www.mises.org/easier/T.asp>

I am not asking what anyone considers to be the truth, only how we can define what truth is.

If nothing existed, could there be such a concept as truth?

Once something exists, is there a truth about that which exists?

If nothing occurs, can there be a truth about events?

If events occur, is there a truth about the occurrence of these events.

In other words, truth is about what actually is and what actually happens. Is it not?

Ruth

Ishamael

Ishamael

Posted
  • Group:  Nonbeliever
  • Followers:  0
  • Topic Count:  0
  • Topics Per Day:  0
  • Content Count:  85
  • Content Per Day:  0.01
  • Reputation:   0
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  06/18/2007
  • Status:  Offline
Posted

I`m Russian. And while I speak on English fluently, I think on Russian.

----

Here is the definition of truth, then.

Truth is any logical statement, that is correct at the moment of issuing such statement.

methinkshe

methinkshe

Posted
  • Group:  Senior Member
  • Followers:  1
  • Topic Count:  32
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  679
  • Content Per Day:  0.10
  • Reputation:   14
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  03/02/2007
  • Status:  Offline
  • Author
Posted
I`m Russian. And while I speak on English fluently, I think on Russian.

----

Here is the definition of truth, then.

Truth is any logical statement, that is correct at the moment of issuing such statement.

No, because you are defining truth in terms of logic. It has to have a conceptual existence that is independent of other concepts, and logic is a concept. My definition is the Occam's Razor of definitions, if you like, the LCD, because it is predicated on existence and events and nothing more.

Ruth

P.S. Good for you for attempting to conduct a philosophical debate in a second language - I'm hard pressed to conduct one in my first language!

 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Our picks

    • Exhortation - October 24, 2024

      Albert Finch posted a blog entry in Albert Finch Ministry,

      You are coming up higher in this season – above the assignments of character assassination and verbal arrows sent to manage you, contain you, and derail your purpose. Where you have had your dreams and sleep robbed, as well as your peace and clarity robbed – leaving you feeling foggy, confused, and heavy – God is, right now, bringing freedom back -- now you will clearly see the smoke and mirrors that were set to distract you and you will disengage.

      Right now God is declaring a "no access zone" around you, and your enemies will no longer have any entry point into your life. Oil is being poured over you to restore the years that the locust ate and give you back your passion. This is where you will feel a fresh roar begin to erupt from your inner being, and a call to leave the trenches behind and begin your odyssey in your Christ calling moving you to bear fruit that remains as you minister to and disciple others into their Christ identity.

      This is where you leave the trenches and scale the mountain to fight from a different place, from victory, from peace, and from rest. Now watch as God leads you up higher above all the noise, above all the chaos, and shows you where you have been seated all along with Him in heavenly places where you are UNTOUCHABLE. This is where you leave the soul fight, and the mind battle, and learn to fight differently.

      You will know how to live like an eagle and lead others to the same place of safety and protection that God led you to, which broke you out of the silent prison you were in. Put your war boots on and get ready to fight back! Refuse to lay down -- get out of bed and rebuke what is coming at you. Remember where you are seated and live from that place.

      Acts 1:8 - “But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses … to the end of the earth.”

       

      ALBERT FINCH MINISTRY
        • Thanks
        • This is Worthy
        • Thumbs Up
      • 3 replies
      Michael37

      Picked By

      Michael37,

    • The Simchat Torah War -- Is this a Water Breaking Moment of Revival?

      George posted a topic in Biblical Topics,

      George Whitten, the visionary behind Worthy Ministries and Worthy News, explores the timing of the Simchat Torah War in Israel. Is this a water-breaking moment? Does the timing of the conflict on October 7 with Hamas signify something more significant on the horizon?

       



      This was a message delivered at Eitz Chaim Congregation in Dallas Texas on February 3, 2024.

      To sign up for our Worthy Brief -- https://worthybrief.com

      Be sure to keep up to date with world events from a Christian perspective by visiting Worthy News -- https://www.worthynews.com

      Visit our live blogging channel on Telegram -- https://t.me/worthywatch
      • 0 replies
      George

      Picked By

      George,

    • Understanding the Enemy!

      George posted a topic in Study Group,

      Understanding the Enemy!

      I thought I write about the flip side of a topic, and how to recognize the attempts of the enemy to destroy lives and how you can walk in His victory!

      For the Apostle Paul taught us not to be ignorant of enemy's tactics and strategies.

      2 Corinthians 2:112  Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices. 

      So often, we can learn lessons by learning and playing "devil's" advocate.  When we read this passage,

      Mar 3:26  And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end. 
      Mar 3:27  No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strongman; and then he will spoil his house. 

      Here we learn a lesson that in order to plunder one's house you must first BIND up the strongman.  While we realize in this particular passage this is referring to God binding up the strongman (Satan) and this is how Satan's house is plundered.  But if you carefully analyze the enemy -- you realize that he uses the same tactics on us!  Your house cannot be plundered -- unless you are first bound.   And then Satan can plunder your house!

      ... read more
        • Praise God!
      • 230 replies
      George

      Picked By

      George,

    • Daniel: Pictures of the Resurrection, Part 3

      George posted a topic in Study Group,

      Daniel: Pictures of the Resurrection, Part 3

      Shalom everyone,

      As we continue this study, I'll be focusing on Daniel and his picture of the resurrection and its connection with Yeshua (Jesus). 

      ... read more
      • 13 replies
      George

      Picked By

      George,

    • Abraham and Issac: Pictures of the Resurrection, Part 2

      George posted a topic in Study Group,

      Abraham and Issac: Pictures of the Resurrection, Part 2
      Shalom everyone,

      As we continue this series the next obvious sign of the resurrection in the Old Testament is the sign of Isaac and Abraham.

      Gen 22:1  After these things God tested Abraham and said to him, "Abraham!" And he said, "Here I am."
      Gen 22:2  He said, "Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you."

      So God "tests" Abraham and as a perfect picture of the coming sacrifice of God's only begotten Son (Yeshua - Jesus) God instructs Issac to go and sacrifice his son, Issac.  Where does he say to offer him?  On Moriah -- the exact location of the Temple Mount.

      ...read more
      • 20 replies
      George

      Picked By

      George,
    View All
×
×
  • Create New...