WN: GOP Support for Iraq War Slips - AP

[The Lorax]

I can't disagree with you, old guy. But I don't see these guys coming up with their own plans, either.

What I am about to suggest sounds un-Christian, I admit, but I see no other solution.

Bomb the living daylights out of every terrorist stronghold in Iraq. Declare victory and bring every U.S. soldier and citizen home!

What's unChristian about that idea?

Not turning the other cheek. Of course, that sentiment has never been applied to military policy, but the fallacy of preemptive strikes has taken America even further from Jesus.

[The Lorax]

This goes to the heart of what I long believed: the American people have lost the stomach for war. Being bombarded by images of dead soldiers and bodies every night on the news, having a daily tally of war dead has served one purpose: to force the average American citizen see things and hear things the have no business seeing or hearing. War is the business of soldiers, not stock brokers or soccer moms. Most citizens don't understand the nature of war, lots of people get killed and lots of property get damaged. It's very loud and dirty, and we don't like to think we're capable of doing it. Yet we are a country that exists thanks to winning wars.

In America we don't like war. We don't see war as a solution to problems but rather as a resolution to a conflict. We are country that has thrived because up until recently, we have treated war as an absolute last resort. We have always taken the first blow. Some people want to compare the war in Iraq to World War II. It is an absurd comparison.

In World War II our homeland was attacked by the Empire of Japan. In response we declared war on Japan. In response to our declaring war on Japan, Japan's ally Germany declared war on the United States. World War II was forced upon us. The country was not shielded from the horrors of the war either. We lost 407,300 men and women fighting that war. Practically every family in America lost loved ones. Moreover, President Roosevelt was frank with the American people and demanded a great deal of sacrifice out of every American. Commodities were rationed, taxes were raised, women went to work in defense industry plants, victory gardens were planted, war bonds were sold, and so on and so forth. The American people supported the effort because they did not choose war, it was thrust upon them, and thus their cause was just. They trusted their president because he was honest with them. He told them that the burden of war would be on them.

Contrast this to the war in Iraq. The war in Iraq is not a war that we were forced into. Indeed, our President chose to take us to war. Iraq was a solution for an ideology that opposed the policies of containment. Unlike FDR, Bush has not been honest with the American people about this war. Prior to the war they used fear-mongering to hype the threat that Iraq supposedly posed to the United States. They used language that specifically crafted to give the impression that Iraq was in some way behind 9/11 (some 70% of Americans at the time held that ridiculous assertion, and its not like they just came up with that on their own). They painted pictures of mushroom clouds over U.S. cities. They talked of massive stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons. They used known forgeries to argue that Iraq has a nuclear weapons program. They never missed a single opportunity to hype the threat posed by Iraq.

Then they went to war. Yet they asked no sacrifice at all out of the American People. In fact, they actually cut taxes for the first time in our nation's history during a time of war. Unlike all previous presidents Bush did not attend any funerals for fallen soldiers. They even prevented the flag draped caskets returning home from being photographed. They essentially told all Americans that we will fight this war, you don't have to worry about it, in fact you don't even have to fund it, your kids can pick up the tab. Meanwhile, they shifted justification for the war more times than anyone could possibly hope to keep up with. They sent their pit-bulls out to slander anyone who so much as questioned the Administration's justification of the war or the prosecution of it. President Bush gave less unscripted press conferences than any other president in at least a century. They have only began to exhibit any honesty about the war since they lost control of congress. Prior to that, the rosy pictures they were painting bordered on delusional (Cheney claiming the insurgency was in its last throws comes to mind). So now after all that, the American People think the war was a bad idea.

I wonder why? It was a needless war, the president was not honest with them, and the entire Middle East has practically fallen apart since we went in. Now the only justification for staying there is that if we leave, we risk it becoming a terrorist stronghold. I mean, I hate to break this to everyone, but it already is a stronghold for radical islam. However, the problem is that was not a terrorist stronghold until the day we went in.

If war is a absolute last resort. If a war is just. If the president is honest to the American People about it. If the American People are asked to sacrifice for the war and are honestly told they all have a stake in it, then the American people have shown time and time again throughout our history that they more than have the stomach for war.

[Old Timer]

In answer to some of the above criticism my posts have generated.

First, much of what has been said I agree with.

However, we were attacked on 9/11 plus in many other places around the globe in the years prior to that infamous date. I will list them if you can

[JustinM]

Unlike all previous presidents Bush did not attend any funerals for fallen soldiers. They even prevented the flag draped caskets returning home from being photographed.

Those photos were being used as a prop to advance an anti-war, anti-president agenda.

They were as distasteful as standing outside a cemetary to sell red roses for the next funeral procession.

The people that used those images to promote an agenda did not care about the pain and suffering, or the sacrifices of that individual and his family.

Those flag draped caskets were being used like a stage prop for the latest broadway production

You are also being dishonest in concluding that Iraq didn't posess WMD's, that is still inconclusive and one of the theories we have about their location is Syria.

That presupposition reminds me of a shop-lifting story I read in a newspaper.

A person was video-taped and monitored and caught with merchandise he didn't purchase, but they didn't apprehend him until he left the store. But, when he saw them coming after him, he gave them the runaround until he could find a place to hide is illegal merchandise. So, since he wasn't in posession of the contraband when the guards apprehended him, they had no case. There were no charges and I'm sure the guy went back to where he stashed his merchandise at a later time.

That is exactly what Saddam Hussein did. He was recorded via satellite imagery of all the WMD's he had and we even had photos of large convoys on the Iraqi/Syrian border prior to the war.

You can place this infantile shell game all you want and say there weren't WMD's in Iraq, but I believe the truth will come out, much sooner than we have expected. Syria is about to make a very big mistake in attacking Israel, when they do, that country will be obliterated and you can bet, we will find those WMD's there when the time comes.

I won't need an apology from any of you propagandists, the Headlines will be absolve the US and humiliate the defeatists.

[forrestkc]

In answer to some of the above criticism my posts have generated.

First, much of what has been said I agree with.

However, we were attacked on 9/11 plus in many other places around the globe in the years prior to that infamous date. I will list them if you can

[Axxman]

Forrest...I know you hate Bush and love to dump ALL blame on him for every twitch in the space time continuum...but have you ever considered...

Maybe 70% of the people believed Iraq was involved in 9/11 because of statements that Saddam Hussein made after 9/11?

The vast majority of the World's leaders agreed with President Bush about Saddam's WMD...they just chose to do very little about it.

President Bush made MANY comments about the sacrifice that this country would undertake in war...including "Americans are rising to the tasks of history, and they expect the same of us. " He repeatedly warned of the "long and diificult task."

I think you have a "media-mind" when it comes to anything concerning the President. If the media has said it, you record-and-repeat the message. Almost 100% of your post was untrue and biased.

Bush told us all that it would be a difficult undertaking and the Congress chose to do it anyway. It is nothing more than weak-willed politicians that would turn now and change their minds for votes.

Imagine how the world would be now if WW2 had ended after 4000 deaths.

[forrestkc]

Unlike all previous presidents Bush did not attend any funerals for fallen soldiers. They even prevented the flag draped caskets returning home from being photographed.

Those photos were being used as a prop to advance an anti-war, anti-president agenda.

They were as distasteful as standing outside a cemetary to sell red roses for the next funeral procession.

The people that used those images to promote an agenda did not care about the pain and suffering, or the sacrifices of that individual and his family.

Those flag draped caskets were being used like a stage prop for the latest broadway production

That is not true. The defense department issued an order to not show them because they saw what happened in Vietnam. They were worried the American people would see the true costs of war and then turn against it.

You are also being dishonest in concluding that Iraq didn't posess WMD's, that is still inconclusive and one of the theories we have about their location is Syria.

Three commissions, all appointed by the President concluded that Iraq did not have WMD or programs to produce them prior to our going into Iraq. That it was effectively disarmed. Just because Sean Hannity thinks they are in Syria does not make it so. Even the President now says they did not have any WMD.

That presupposition reminds me of a shop-lifting story I read in a newspaper.

A person was video-taped and monitored and caught with merchandise he didn't purchase, but they didn't apprehend him until he left the store. But, when he saw them coming after him, he gave them the runaround until he could find a place to hide is illegal merchandise. So, since he wasn't in posession of the contraband when the guards apprehended him, they had no case. There were no charges and I'm sure the guy went back to where he stashed his merchandise at a later time.

That is exactly what Saddam Hussein did. He was recorded via satellite imagery of all the WMD's he had and we even had photos of large convoys on the Iraqi/Syrian border prior to the war.

You are buying into the propaganda being put out by the warmongers. Let's say thats the case, it isn't, but just for the purposes of discussion lets say we have satellite imagery of Saddam moving convoys of WMD to Syria. Do you not realize that is even worse than going to war for nothing? The whole point of the war in Iraq was to keep those supposed stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons from falling into the hands of terrorist. So you are wanting to hang your hat on us just sitting there and doing nothing while we watched Saddam move all those weapons to one of the biggest terrorist supporting nations on earth?

[Celtic Warrior]

I can't disagree with you, old guy. But I don't see these guys coming up with their own plans, either.

What I am about to suggest sounds un-Christian, I admit, but I see no other solution.

Bomb the living daylights out of every terrorist stronghold in Iraq. Declare victory and bring every U.S. soldier and citizen home!

What's unChristian about that idea?

That solution would involve killing innocent women and children and would take the same type of courage displayed by Harry Truman when he dropped the atomic bombs on Japan. I do not see anyone in politics today with that fortitude. Perhaps it is not un-Christian but it would certainly be declared so.

Put the same effort now being wasted on Iraq into securing our boarders and we would be spending our money against terrorism in a much more effective way without the cost in American lives.

This goes to the heart of what I long believed: the American people have lost the stomach for war. Being bombarded by images of dead soldiers and bodies every night on the news, having a daily tally of war dead has served one purpose: to force the average American citizen see things and hear things the have no business seeing or hearing. War is the business of soldiers, not stock brokers or soccer moms. Most citizens don't understand the nature of war, lots of people get killed and lots of property get damaged. It's very loud and dirty, and we don't like to think we're capable of doing it. Yet we are a country that exists thanks to winning wars.

I wonder if it will be the business of EVERY AMERICAN WHEN we are finally invaded and the war is in our own backyards and we can't avoid seeing the carnage. Of course it is EVERY AMERICAN'S business to know what the face of war looks like!! Just because you can turn a blind and unChrist like eye toward the suffering, carnage, destruction and misery of others doesn't mean that regular Americans aren't smart enough to see through it all. We've only made matters worse, and "Bombing every terrorists hideout" will only do more damage. There is no way to find EVERY hideout and the Innocent surviving Victims will then become the new terrorist enemies. Regardless of how powerful and mighty we think we are, we can't defeat the whole world, not even the whole Muslim world, by ourselves. Perhaps if you'd quit listening to the "NO" spin of Hannity and Coulter and the like, and would actually look at what is happening you might have some better visions of the costs to humanity

And YES, bombings like suggested would be VERY UNCHRISTIAN. Read your New Testament!!! With an eye toward Christ NOT America