Vashti vs. Esther

[hepatocyte]

I certainly don't think the king ordered his wife to be the modern-day equivalent of an erotic dancer. Maybe he just wanted to show everyone how pretty Vashti was in her royal regalia and crown...? But who knows for sure?

[firehill]

I certainly don't think the king ordered his wife to be the modern-day equivalent of an erotic dancer.

Yes, I'm sure he didn't do that.

Maybe he just wanted to show everyone how pretty Vashti was in her royal regalia and crown...?

I don't think that would have bothered her do you? Now making a showcase of her beauty as in displaying her as he displayed his kingdom is something I can see that could have caused her to be offended.

But who knows for sure?

Exactly.

[Guest Biblicist]

Also, this "protector" of the Jews, until Esther came alone and pleaded their case before Him, signed an order to DESTROY all Jews. Because of his love for his gorgeous wife, he spared them. Had it not been for her and persuasive beauty, he would have heartlessly killed them all for nothing more than a profit.

Not quite true. . .

4:12 When Esther's words were reported to Mordecai, 13 he sent back this answer: "Do not think that because you are in the king's house you alone of all the Jews will escape. 14 For if you remain silent at this time, relief and deliverance for the Jews will arise from another place, but you and your father's family will perish. And who knows but that you have come to royal position for such a time as this?"

God would have delivered the Jews but Esther would have missed the blessing and been destroyed herself. It was GOD who saved the Jews from the edict, not Esther.

Even the people around Haman realized that no one could stand against the Jews.

6:13b His advisers and his wife Zeresh said to him, "Since Mordecai, before whom your downfall has started, is of Jewish origin, you cannot stand against him

[Guest LadyC]

if i recall correctly, wasn't the king manipulated into signing the order to destroy all jews without being given the whole truth?

[Guest LadyC]

ahhh, yes, here it is:

5 When Haman saw that Mordecai would not kneel down or pay him honor, he was enraged. 6 Yet having learned who Mordecai's people were, he scorned the idea of killing only Mordecai. Instead Haman looked for a way to destroy all Mordecai's people, the Jews, throughout the whole kingdom of Xerxes.

7 In the twelfth year of King Xerxes, in the first month, the month of Nisan, they cast the pur (that is, the lot) in the presence of Haman to select a day and month. And the lot fell on [a] the twelfth month, the month of Adar.

8 Then Haman said to King Xerxes, "There is a certain people dispersed and scattered among the peoples in all the provinces of your kingdom whose customs are different from those of all other people and who do not obey the king's laws; it is not in the king's best interest to tolerate them. 9 If it pleases the king, let a decree be issued to destroy them, and I will put ten thousand talents of silver into the royal treasury for the men who carry out this business."

10 So the king took his signet ring from his finger and gave it to Haman son of Hammedatha, the Agagite, the enemy of the Jews. 11 "Keep the money," the king said to Haman, "and do with the people as you please."

xerxes was not told that haman planned to destroy the entire jewish population. as i understand it, he thought he was authorizing the annhilation of a group of rebels.

[Guest Biblicist]

ahhh, yes, here it is:

5 When Haman saw that Mordecai would not kneel down or pay him honor, he was enraged. 6 Yet having learned who Mordecai's people were, he scorned the idea of killing only Mordecai. Instead Haman looked for a way to destroy all Mordecai's people, the Jews, throughout the whole kingdom of Xerxes.

7 In the twelfth year of King Xerxes, in the first month, the month of Nisan, they cast the pur (that is, the lot) in the presence of Haman to select a day and month. And the lot fell on [a] the twelfth month, the month of Adar.

8 Then Haman said to King Xerxes, "There is a certain people dispersed and scattered among the peoples in all the provinces of your kingdom whose customs are different from those of all other people and who do not obey the king's laws; it is not in the king's best interest to tolerate them. 9 If it pleases the king, let a decree be issued to destroy them, and I will put ten thousand talents of silver into the royal treasury for the men who carry out this business."

10 So the king took his signet ring from his finger and gave it to Haman son of Hammedatha, the Agagite, the enemy of the Jews. 11 "Keep the money," the king said to Haman, "and do with the people as you please."

xerxes was not told that haman planned to destroy the entire jewish population. as i understand it, he thought he was authorizing the annhilation of a group of rebels.

Yeah, those in power need to be careful who their advisors are. . . With God as an advisor you're more sure that there will be fairness.

[Guest]

My prayer many times are that my life will reflect God's beauty, and that His beauty will shine through me - and that He will look with favor upon me.

[None]

Also, this "protector" of the Jews, until Esther came alone and pleaded their case before Him, signed an order to DESTROY all Jews. Because of his love for his gorgeous wife, he spared them. Had it not been for her and persuasive beauty, he would have heartlessly killed them all for nothing more than a profit.

Not quite true. . .

4:12 When Esther's words were reported to Mordecai, 13 he sent back this answer: "Do not think that because you are in the king's house you alone of all the Jews will escape. 14 For if you remain silent at this time, relief and deliverance for the Jews will arise from another place, but you and your father's family will perish. And who knows but that you have come to royal position for such a time as this?"

God would have delivered the Jews but Esther would have missed the blessing and been destroyed herself. It was GOD who saved the Jews from the edict, not Esther.

Read post #6, Bib, I did clarify that God's will would have been done either way. In the post you quoted, I was stating that the king would[gladly] have done it[if God would have allowed it]. It was actually a gift from God to Esther that He worked through her. She was a very lucky girl. God didn't "need" her, though, no more than He "needs" any of us to do His will. He grants us the pleasure of doing His will. This is why we'll return the "crowns" we're given when we all get to Heaven(what a day of rejoicing that will be).

xerxes was not told that haman planned to destroy the entire jewish population. as i understand it, he thought he was authorizing the annhilation of a group of rebels.

Which is why I stated he wasn't very bright. You're right, though, it wasn't the money. Forgot that bit.

[tsth]

But, as I stated in my original title, I believe the real symbolism was that of the "rebellion" of Vashti, to the authority of her husband. Not only would she not come to "his banquet", BUT, she concocted her own.

Whereas the symbolism of Esther is really quite remarkable, when considering the submission to the one who is head. Here was Vashti making her own banquet out of rebellion, yet as soon as obedient Esther was given the crown by the king, "viola". She was given the very thing that cost Vashti the crown:

Esther 2:17 Now the king was attracted to Esther more than to any of the other women, and she won his favor and approval more than any of the other virgins. So he set a royal crown on her head and made her queen instead of Vashti. 18 And the king gave a great banquet, Esther's banquet, for all his nobles and officials.

She didn't even have to ask for one.........it was automatically given to her!

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Guest Biblicist]

But, as I stated in my original title, I believe the real symbolism was that of the "rebellion" of Vashti, to the authority of her husband. Not only would she not come to "his banquet", BUT, she concocted her own.

Whereas the symbolism of Esther is really quite remarkable, when considering the submission to the one who is head. Here was Vashti making her own banquet out of rebellion, yet as soon as obedient Esther was given the crown by the king, "viola". She was given the very thing that cost Vashti the crown:

Esther 2:17 Now the king was attracted to Esther more than to any of the other women, and she won his favor and approval more than any of the other virgins. So he set a royal crown on her head and made her queen instead of Vashti. 18 And the king gave a great banquet, Esther's banquet, for all his nobles and officials.

She didn't even have to ask for one.........it was automatically given to her!

In His Love,

Suzanne

Quite right, Vashti not only rebelled against her husband she also rebelled against the King, and God in the process.

Esther exercised submission, and respect and was blessed for it.