Split - Sin and Salvation

[methinkshe]

Sin is a condition, it is not an action. Unless one understands this basic precept, one will spend forever trying to discern whether this action or that action is or is not a sin. Jesus came to save us from an inherited-from-Adam sin nature, that can only produce evil acts, such that even our good deeds are as filthy rags to God. When one is born again of the spirit of God, then all deeds that result from that spiritual rebirth, i.e. Jesus in me, are inherently good and acceptable. All deeds that come from the flesh remain inherently sinful, whatever they are, including good works.

Ruth

[EricH]

Sin is a condition, it is not an action. Unles one can understand this basic precept, one will spend forever trying to discern whether this action or that action is or is not a sin. Jesus came to save us from an inherited-from-Adam sin nature, that can only p[roduce eveil acts, such that even our good deeds are as filthy rags to God. When one is born again of the spirit of God, then all deeds that result from that spiritual rebirth, i.e. Jesus in me, are inherently good and acceptable. All deeds that come from the flesh remain inherently sinful, whatever they are, including good works.

Ruth

I think sin is both a condition and an action. Humans have a sin nature, but commit sinful acts. Murder is sinful regardless of the attitude one has when they do it (as is adultery, gossip etc.)

[methinkshe]

Sin is a condition, it is not an action. Unles one can understand this basic precept, one will spend forever trying to discern whether this action or that action is or is not a sin. Jesus came to save us from an inherited-from-Adam sin nature, that can only p[roduce eveil acts, such that even our good deeds are as filthy rags to God. When one is born again of the spirit of God, then all deeds that result from that spiritual rebirth, i.e. Jesus in me, are inherently good and acceptable. All deeds that come from the flesh remain inherently sinful, whatever they are, including good works.

Ruth

I think sin is both a condition and an action. Humans have a sin nature, but commit sinful acts. Murder is sinful regardless of the attitude one has when they do it (as is adultery, gossip etc.)

Then may I ask you this: if you are truly born of the Spirit and it is not you who lives but Christ who lives in you, can you commit murder? And just supposing you do, is it Christ in you who commits that murder, or is it your sinful nature in Adam, that should be counted as dead because it died with Christ, that commits that murder?

Ruth

[EricH]

Sin is a condition, it is not an action. Unles one can understand this basic precept, one will spend forever trying to discern whether this action or that action is or is not a sin. Jesus came to save us from an inherited-from-Adam sin nature, that can only p[roduce eveil acts, such that even our good deeds are as filthy rags to God. When one is born again of the spirit of God, then all deeds that result from that spiritual rebirth, i.e. Jesus in me, are inherently good and acceptable. All deeds that come from the flesh remain inherently sinful, whatever they are, including good works.

Ruth

I think sin is both a condition and an action. Humans have a sin nature, but commit sinful acts. Murder is sinful regardless of the attitude one has when they do it (as is adultery, gossip etc.)

Then may I ask you this: if you are truly born of the Spirit and it is not you who lives but Christ who lives in you, can you commit murder? And just supposing you do, is it Christ in you who commits that murder, or is it your sinful nature in Adam, that should be counted as dead because it died with Christ, that commits that murder?

Ruth

It is us who commits the sin.

[methinkshe]

Sin is a condition, it is not an action. Unles one can understand this basic precept, one will spend forever trying to discern whether this action or that action is or is not a sin. Jesus came to save us from an inherited-from-Adam sin nature, that can only p[roduce eveil acts, such that even our good deeds are as filthy rags to God. When one is born again of the spirit of God, then all deeds that result from that spiritual rebirth, i.e. Jesus in me, are inherently good and acceptable. All deeds that come from the flesh remain inherently sinful, whatever they are, including good works.

Ruth

I think sin is both a condition and an action. Humans have a sin nature, but commit sinful acts. Murder is sinful regardless of the attitude one has when they do it (as is adultery, gossip etc.)

Then may I ask you this: if you are truly born of the Spirit and it is not you who lives but Christ who lives in you, can you commit murder? And just supposing you do, is it Christ in you who commits that murder, or is it your sinful nature in Adam, that should be counted as dead because it died with Christ, that commits that murder?

Ruth

It is us who commits the sin.

But if you are in Christ and Christ is in you, then in that new, born again spirit that is united with Christ you are perfect and sinless - yes or no? Therefore if you continue to practice that which is abhorrent to God then it emanates from your Adamic nature which is as good as dead to the one who is alive to, and in, Christ and therefore it should have not have any eternal significance. Am I wrong? Is not this the glorious liberty we have in Christ Jesus? And that is absolutely not to argue that because we are free from the penalty of sin that therefore we are free to continue to live the life of the unredeemed, it is only to accept that in Jesus we are perfect before the Father because He is perfect before the Father.

Please, tell me if you think I have misunderstood the glorious freedom that I have in Jesus. That I am no longer under the law of sin and death but under grace through faith in the finished work of Jesus.

Ruth

[EricH]

This is a discussion regarding post salvation sin and it's impact. It was split from the Egalitarian thread

[OopsMartin]

This is a discussion regarding post salvation sin and it's impact. It was split from the Egalitarian thread

Thanks for splitting this and bringing over the threads....

IMO there are two elements at work here.

First, Adam's sin changed the nature of humanity in ways that we still do not understand because we didn't see Adam and Eve as they were before they sinned. The result of their disobedience is that we now live with death and we live outside the direct presence of God and perfect holiness. This is major. It's like being born on the wrong side of the tracks. Surrounded by the lack of Holiness we have an easy tendency toward sinful behavior.

Second, everyone sins. All have fallen short of the glory of God. Even Christians sin. But thankfully Christians have a ready advocate to forgive and cleanse us from our sins when we repent. Anyone who thinks we do not sin is in error.

1 John 1

5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

[Ovedya]

Sin is a condition, it is not an action. Unles one can understand this basic precept, one will spend forever trying to discern whether this action or that action is or is not a sin. Jesus came to save us from an inherited-from-Adam sin nature, that can only p[roduce eveil acts, such that even our good deeds are as filthy rags to God. When one is born again of the spirit of God, then all deeds that result from that spiritual rebirth, i.e. Jesus in me, are inherently good and acceptable. All deeds that come from the flesh remain inherently sinful, whatever they are, including good works.

Ruth

I think sin is both a condition and an action. Humans have a sin nature, but commit sinful acts. Murder is sinful regardless of the attitude one has when they do it (as is adultery, gossip etc.)

Then may I ask you this: if you are truly born of the Spirit and it is not you who lives but Christ who lives in you, can you commit murder? And just supposing you do, is it Christ in you who commits that murder, or is it your sinful nature in Adam, that should be counted as dead because it died with Christ, that commits that murder?

Ruth

What if I think about committing a murder, or purpose to do so in my heart? The Lord tells us that we have already done so. A sin is committed every time we offend a brother or sister in the church.

[methinkshe]

Sin is a condition, it is not an action. Unles one can understand this basic precept, one will spend forever trying to discern whether this action or that action is or is not a sin. Jesus came to save us from an inherited-from-Adam sin nature, that can only p[roduce eveil acts, such that even our good deeds are as filthy rags to God. When one is born again of the spirit of God, then all deeds that result from that spiritual rebirth, i.e. Jesus in me, are inherently good and acceptable. All deeds that come from the flesh remain inherently sinful, whatever they are, including good works.

Ruth

I think sin is both a condition and an action. Humans have a sin nature, but commit sinful acts. Murder is sinful regardless of the attitude one has when they do it (as is adultery, gossip etc.)

Then may I ask you this: if you are truly born of the Spirit and it is not you who lives but Christ who lives in you, can you commit murder? And just supposing you do, is it Christ in you who commits that murder, or is it your sinful nature in Adam, that should be counted as dead because it died with Christ, that commits that murder?

Ruth

What if I think about committing a murder, or purpose to do so in my heart? The Lord tells us that we have already done so. A sin is committed every time we offend a brother or sister in the church.

Absolutely! So how are we to be saved from ourselves?

Ruth

[EricH]

Sin is a condition, it is not an action. Unles one can understand this basic precept, one will spend forever trying to discern whether this action or that action is or is not a sin. Jesus came to save us from an inherited-from-Adam sin nature, that can only p[roduce eveil acts, such that even our good deeds are as filthy rags to God. When one is born again of the spirit of God, then all deeds that result from that spiritual rebirth, i.e. Jesus in me, are inherently good and acceptable. All deeds that come from the flesh remain inherently sinful, whatever they are, including good works.

Ruth

I think sin is both a condition and an action. Humans have a sin nature, but commit sinful acts. Murder is sinful regardless of the attitude one has when they do it (as is adultery, gossip etc.)

Then may I ask you this: if you are truly born of the Spirit and it is not you who lives but Christ who lives in you, can you commit murder? And just supposing you do, is it Christ in you who commits that murder, or is it your sinful nature in Adam, that should be counted as dead because it died with Christ, that commits that murder?

Ruth

What if I think about committing a murder, or purpose to do so in my heart? The Lord tells us that we have already done so. A sin is committed every time we offend a brother or sister in the church.

Absolutely! So how are we to be saved from ourselves?

Ruth

I believe that we are in the process of being saved from our sin natures. Slavation has 2 components. We are justified at the moment of salvation. All of our sins are forgiven and cleansed. We receive a new nature at the pojnt of salvation. The second portion of our slavation os ongoing. it is the battle between our new nature and the old one (sanctification). We are saved in this way as we yield to Jesus and become more and more like Him