Adam's Responsibility?

[Guest lnj]

You're right, Eve was no halfwit but like any important decision, there's usually a joint discussion first. I would find it quite remarkable if any Christian woman would go ahead and make a life and death decision without her husbands input first. The thing is Adam also went along with the lie satan told them, after listening to Eve , BOTH of them knew without a shadow of a doubt NOT to eat the fruit of that tree. It was a life and death decision.

If this thread is turning into a womens lib campaign then I'm disinterested already. And no I don't need to check out the story again.

[inhistime]

You're right, Eve was no halfwit but like any important decision, there's usually a joint discussion first. I would find it quite remarkable if any Christian woman would go ahead and make a life and death decision without her husbands input first. The thing is Adam also went along with the lie satan told them, after listening to Eve , BOTH of them knew without a shadow of a doubt NOT to eat the fruit of that tree. It was a life and death decision.

If this thread is turning into a womens lib campaign then I'm disinterested already. And no I don't need to check out the story again.

You see that is where Eve was deceived. She didn't see it as a life and death decision. Since scripture says that she was fully deceived and Adam said nothing while she was being deceived, there was nothing to ask him about. She was completely convinced that what the serpent told her was true. All she had to do now was take and eat. Adam did not go along with the lie of Satan. The only way he could have done that is if he was deceived. His decision to eat was out of rebellion toward God. Adam was in rebellion and dealt treacherously with God. Hosea 6:7 says:

Hos 6:7 But like Adam they have transgressed the covenant; There they have dealt treacherously against Me.

That's a serious thing and Adam is to be held accountable for sinning with his eyes open. Eve DID know that she wasn't to eat of the fruit before she was deceived but after she was deceived she became convinced that there was no punishment and the it was not wrong to eat from the fruit. After she was fully deceived, Eve saw the eating of the fruit as a good thing not an evil thing. The one who knew all along and always knew it was wrong was Adam.

[Guest lnj]

Eve was misled alright.

[inhistime]

Eve was misled alright.

Yes, I agree. The interesting thing is that there are those who believe the same lie today. I have been meeting with some Mormon missionaries and they say that the serpent told the truth. They say he only lied about the no dying part, but the part about Adam and Eve becoming Gods themselves was true.

The same old lie, the same kinds of people - fully deceived. Only this time we get to do what Adam did not choose to do. We get to tell them that it is not the truth and we get to share the truth with them. It is so amazing to me how long this lie has been around and how many people still believe it!

[firehill]

As one thinks in their heart so are they

[Guest Biblicist]

She was an intelligent woman, at least I am assuming that since women are intelligent today that the first woman would also have been intelligent.

[tsth]

There is nothing in the passage that even hints that Eve had to discuss her own personal decision with her husband. Both Adam and Eve were both personally responsible for their own spiritual decision.

You might want to re-read the account again. It appears that you are accusing Eve of doing something to Adam "usurping her position as wife". The wife is not told to check her brains at the door and Eve had the choice to obey or disobey. Adam blamed her for giving the fruit to him, but God shows where the blame rests. God said that Adam listened to the voice of his wife and as John Piper says so eloquently, "Adam did nothing". That is where the blame needs to stop. Adam knew the serpent was not telling the truth and he said nothing. Yes, Eve did make a bad decision but she is not the one said to have brought sin into the world. The one who ate with his eyes wide open in a deliberate decision to disobey God was said to be the one who brought sin into the world. The one who ate because she was deceived received grace from God. God promised the Messiah would come through her and her sin was not transferred to her children. The line of sin came through the man.

What you are dismissing is that when God joined them, they became one. What she does, affects his body. What he does, affects hers. (Again, I refer to Ephesians 5.) They were to work as ONE in marriage now, not independently, the marriage makes a separate entity that God ordains and puts together. For a marriage to be "abundant" there should be a unity between husband and wife that works according to the way God intended. It should function that way as well, following the guidelines that were given for the family unit (See Family Out of Order thread). It would not make sense for God to say that husband must be "head" of wife, if they both are going to be vying for the same position as head. Just as God has given His Word, so that we might have life more abundantly, these things are a part of it.

Ephesians 5:31 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh."

In His Love,

Suzanne

[exrockstar]

Eve and Adam had an up close and personal relationship with God, so Eve knew first hand of God's Laws just as Adam did.

Everything was available for them except one thing and I believe Eve slipped up by usurping her position as wife and not discussing a problem (because that's what it was) with her husband.

And a vital problem needed to be sorted out. He in turn, then didn't discuss it with God (not that he really needed to because he knew right from wrong) and decided to heed his wife's bad judgment call. A bad decision with eternal consequences.

There is nothing in the passage that even hints that Eve had to discuss her own personal decision with her husband. Both Adam and Eve were both personally responsible for their own spiritual decision.

Actually God told Adam, and every male since, to come forth and provide sacrificial offerings.

If they were both responsible then why would God make the male come forth to represent the two (or family)?

Some females don't like to admit nor feel as though males have more of a responsibility.

Especially the independant females...forgetaboutit.

[inhistime]

There is nothing in the passage that even hints that Eve had to discuss her own personal decision with her husband. Both Adam and Eve were both personally responsible for their own spiritual decision.

You might want to re-read the account again. It appears that you are accusing Eve of doing something to Adam "usurping her position as wife". The wife is not told to check her brains at the door and Eve had the choice to obey or disobey. Adam blamed her for giving the fruit to him, but God shows where the blame rests. God said that Adam listened to the voice of his wife and as John Piper says so eloquently, "Adam did nothing". That is where the blame needs to stop. Adam knew the serpent was not telling the truth and he said nothing. Yes, Eve did make a bad decision but she is not the one said to have brought sin into the world. The one who ate with his eyes wide open in a deliberate decision to disobey God was said to be the one who brought sin into the world. The one who ate because she was deceived received grace from God. God promised the Messiah would come through her and her sin was not transferred to her children. The line of sin came through the man.

What you are dismissing is that when God joined them, they became one. What she does, affects his body. What he does, affects hers. (Again, I refer to Ephesians 5.) They were to work as ONE in marriage now, not independently, the marriage makes a separate entity that God ordains and puts together. For a marriage to be "abundant" there should be a unity between husband and wife that works according to the way God intended. It should function that way as well, following the guidelines that were given for the family unit (See Family Out of Order thread). It would not make sense for God to say that husband must be "head" of wife, if they both are going to be vying for the same position as head. Just as God has given His Word, so that we might have life more abundantly, these things are a part of it.

Ephesians 5:31 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh."

In His Love,

Suzanne

One flesh doesn't mean that one gives up their ability to be their own person too. If that were the case then when Adam and Eve sinned, God would have come to them both as "one flesh" asking them both what they had done. Instead God goes to each one separately because their individual responsibility is not changed because of marriage.

[inhistime]

Eve and Adam had an up close and personal relationship with God, so Eve knew first hand of God's Laws just as Adam did.

Everything was available for them except one thing and I believe Eve slipped up by usurping her position as wife and not discussing a problem (because that's what it was) with her husband.

And a vital problem needed to be sorted out. He in turn, then didn't discuss it with God (not that he really needed to because he knew right from wrong) and decided to heed his wife's bad judgment call. A bad decision with eternal consequences.

There is nothing in the passage that even hints that Eve had to discuss her own personal decision with her husband. Both Adam and Eve were both personally responsible for their own spiritual decision.

Actually God told Adam, and every male since, to come forth and provide sacrificial offerings.

If they were both responsible then why would God make the male come forth to represent the two (or family)?

Some females don't like to admit nor feel as though males have more of a responsibility.

Especially the independant females...forgetaboutit.

What you are saying is not scriptural. Let us test what you have said by God's word. Look in Acts 5 the story of Ananias and his wife Sapphira. Ananias decided to sin (Acts 5:2) and his wife had full knowledge of the plot.

Act 5:1 But a man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property,

Act 5:2 and kept back some of the price for himself, with his wife's full knowledge, and bringing a portion of it, he laid it at the apostles' feet.

Did God only call the man to account for his family? Or did the wife hold a responsibility for her part in the plot? Let's see.

Act 5:3 But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land?

Act 5:4 "While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God."

Act 5:5 And as he heard these words, Ananias fell down and breathed his last; and great fear came over all who heard of it.

Act 5:6 The young men got up and covered him up, and after carrying him out, they buried him.

Act 5:7 Now there elapsed an interval of about three hours, and his wife came in, not knowing what had happened.

Act 5:8 And Peter responded to her, "Tell me whether you sold the land for such and such a price?" And she said, "Yes, that was the price."

Act 5:9 Then Peter said to her, "Why is it that you have agreed together to put the Spirit of the Lord to the test? Behold, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out as well."

Act 5:10 And immediately she fell at his feet and breathed her last, and the young men came in and found her dead, and they carried her out and buried her beside her husband.

You will see here that Ananias was not called to account for the family. Sapphira was put to death for her own sin. Otherwise she could have claimed that it was her husband's decision for the family and she was not to blame.

The idea that males have more responsibility and that they will be called to account for the family while the wife will not, is not scriptural. Where do we get the idea that the man is more responsible? Not from the scriptures. It comes from our faulty tradition.

With Adam and Eve, they too were individually responsible for what they did. God did not call Adam to account for the family. He called him to account for what he did and for what he did not do. God also called Eve to account for what she did.

Marriage is a wonderful union between two people in the flesh. However spiritually we are accountable for ourselves. A woman cannot follow along with her husband in his error and claim that she isn't responsible because he is the leader. No, this isn't scriptural at all. We all are individually responsible and when women realize this, they will have to mature and take responsibility for their own spirituality.