Dare I Ask...

[antiaging]

Grace to you,

God knows all, but His angels don't.

Who do the Angels serve antiaging?

They serve God.

They serve at His behest so to send them to probe someone to determine their health would mean that God Himself was limited in His Omniscience.

Do you see how this focus of yours has pulled you away from the real focus of Christianity and left you with a view of God that doesn't line up with Scripture?

Peace,

Dave

I am posting on the focus of this original post. The question was raised about ufos.

I have filled my posts on this subject with scriptures. It looks to me like it does line up with the scriptures. Trying to say that ufo aliens are devils does not line up with the scriptures.

No where in the bible do devils have flying objects. It is the bible that determines the truth.

God's angels have them.

Psalms 68:17 The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands

of angels: the Lord is among them, as in Sinai, in the holy place.

A chariot is a conveyance or vehicle. In psalm 68:17 it shows that angels

are associated with chariots.

Exodus 14:19 And the angel of God, which went before the camp of Israel, removed and went behind them; and the pillar of the cloud went from before their face, and stood behind them:

[The cloudlike pillar flying object is a common ufo shape in modern times and has been filmed more than once.]

I am posting on the focus of this original post. The question was raised about ufos.

Grace to you,

That's not what I said.

I said that your focus on UFO's and aliens has drawn your focus off of the fact that God is Omniscient.

You have mischaracterized God by stating that His Omniscience isn't sufficient or is non-existent. Due to the fact that He needs to send His Created Angels, (Servants), to probe human beings so that He will know the condition of humanity's health.

Now you are stating that God needs a vehicle to come to earth.

Peace,

Dave

I did not say anything about God's omiscience.

Don't equate God's angels with God. The bible says man is created a little lower than the angels. That means angels are only a little higher than men. The bible also says angels are not to be worshipped.

I did not say they probe humans so that God would know their condition. I was saying they would probe humans so the angels would know their condition. God is omniscient. God's angels are not omniscient.

Daniel calls them watchers and holy ones. The angels watch over the planet. God gave them their tasks to perform to that end. It is their responsiblity to find out what they need to do.

If they are only a litle higher than men, as it says in psalms, then angels certainly don't know everything.

God knows everything. His created angels don't know everything.

I did not say that God needs a vehicle to come to Earth.

I say the bible indicates that His angels use vehicles and vehicles will probably be used by His angels in the second coming of Jesus, because He is coming back with an angel army.

Psalms 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?

Psalms 8:5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

If man is a little lower than the angels, then angels are not omnicient and they don't know everything.

Only God Himself, [Father, Son and Holy Spirit], knows everything.

Edited September 7, 2007 by antiaging

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

aa,

Your reasoning doesn't follow logic nor the Word of God.

If the Angels serve God they can't be doing anything inconsistant with His Charecter and Nature as revealed by His Word.

Sexually probing men and basically raping them against their will would place them outside of God's will. Thus they would not be witnessing to God's Nature or revealing His will. They would be pursuing their own.

Let's take a look at the pillar of fire from Exodus for a minute;

Ex

[antiaging]

Grace to you,

aa,

Your reasoning doesn't follow logic nor the Word of God.

If the Angels serve God they can't be doing anything inconsistant with His Charecter and Nature as revealed by His Word.

Sexually probing men and basically raping them against their will would place them outside of God's will. Thus they would not be witnessing to God's Nature or revealing His will. They would be pursuing their own.

Let's take a look at the pillar of fire from Exodus for a minute;

Ex

Edited September 8, 2007 by antiaging

[nebula]

I am saying from the scriptures, angels, that have physical bodies, sometimes use flying craft in the bible.

I also don't like people changing my words around as some kind of a debater's technique.

I apologize - I was responding as I understood you to be saying.

God's angels are not God. They are not to be worshipped.

I never said that angels were God.

They are a little higher than men,

Hebrews 2:5-9

5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. 6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? 7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: 8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

This is why I am questioning your interpretation of these Scriptures about angels. For what are you making Jesus out to be?

and having physical bodies,

And they have the ability to appear and disappear, which is not something our physical bodies can do.

Do you not believe they are spiritual beings?

the scriptures indicate that they use flying craft like men do now. But the propulsion system is some kind of advanced energy field propulsion that we don't have yet.

No, that is your interpretation of Scripture and not what the Scriptures say.

The angel was in the pillar. The energy field of this particular cigar shaped ufo, seen and filmed in modern times, causes water condensation in the atmosphere. The cigar shaped ufo looks like a pillar of a cloud by day and it glows with a golden or orange glow at night. This is the same thing that is described for the pillar that led the Israelites through the desert. Pillar of cloud by day and pillar of fire by night. The angel went behind the camp because he was in the cloudlike pillar ufo. UFOs use energy field propulsion which sometimes glows and sometimes doesn't glow. They are flying craft which in biblical terminology is a chariot or a conveyance. There may have been a whole flight crew of angels in there, and not just one.

No, as Matthitjah pointed out: "The Word of God here states that it was the Lord Himself who went before the Israelites. Not spacecraft piloted by Angels."

And as I pointed out, there was an and separating the movement of the angel of the Lord and the movement of the cloud. This means they were separate from one another, not the same thing.

It can glorify Jesus in helping to prove that the words of the bible are true. UFOs are real filmed and substantiated evidence that God's angels really exist. This can be used to help verify the truth of the bible and lead people to salvation.

UFO's are acquainted with abduction, rape, inhumane experiments and lunacy. I hardly see how that advances the Gospel.

Angels use chariots or conveyances. They pilot the flying objects, like an astronaut or pilot would. The angel is in the object, a flying craft.

Ezekiel 1 says that the wheels accompanied the angels, not the other way around (which is what would happen in a vehicle or flying craft).

[nebula]

I had to split my reply.

John 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

I believe anything the King James version bible says.

And I reposted the original Scripture I had posted with the King James version. It says the same thing, as I pointed out. Did you read it?

The subject topic is ufos. I don't like being side tracked away from the topic.

Being a Christian message board, we reserve the right to "test the spirit" of posters.

I have shown biblical evidence to support that ufo aliens are God's angels and not devils.

You have arguments with that, then bring forth your scriptures that show it is not so. Bring forth your scriptures that show ufos to be associated with devils. Let's see them. --There aren't any.

First of all, I never posted anything about UFO's being associated with devils, and I have no intention to.

Second, I have challenged your interpretation of angels (and I wouldn't have butted in here like this if I hadn't read your post, which was wisely deleted, where you claimed: "What you consider rape might in reality be how God uses angels to control and upgrade the genetics of the human race, or to prevent genetic deterioration of humans."

That is nothing more than a complete degrading of the character of God.

As a woman, I can tell you point blank that uninvited intercourse or impregnating to a woman is as traumatizing as castration is to a man.

Unsaved people that are still in darkness and still controlled by the devil make movies like "Independance Day" which try to make aliens out to be villains. The Devil wants people to think that God's angels are villains or evil.

As a Christian you must judge truth by what the bible says. Not by hollywood's lies.

And what makes you think I am basing my view of aliens off of Hollywood?

Again, I am not making any claims about aliens. What I am claiming is that your claim about angels is severely incorrect.

That light brighter than the sun, that Paul saw on the road to Damascus is another typical ufo seen in modern times. Jesus spoke to him from that light. It was not a vision. All of the men with Paul also saw the light. It was a real physical manifestation in the sky. The light caused him real eye damage, which was later healed.

The bright ball of light is a typical ufo type.

You see - there - you are degrading Jesus!

Have you not heard? Jesus is the light!

Do you know nothing of the glory of God?!

Jesus (who is God) does not need a spacecraft to appear to a man. What are you saying about God by saying that He does?

[When Jesus ascended into heaven a cloud received Him out of their sight. Could be a regular cloud or could be a reference to the type of cloudy pillar that led the Israelites. He is also coming back with the clouds of heaven, the bible says that.]

Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

That is just something I wonder about.

If you look up "cloud" in a concordance, you will see that a cloud is associated with the glory of the Lord. Do you know what the glory of the Lord is?

And by the way - if the cloud is associated with spacecraft, how did the cloud fill the temple?

1 Kings 8 (KJV)

10 And it came to pass, when the priests were come out of the holy place, that the cloud filled the house of the LORD, 11 So that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud: for the glory of the LORD had filled the house of the LORD.

[Guest]

The subject topic is UFOs. I don't like being side tracked away from the topic.

Being a Christian message board, we reserve the right to "test the spirit" of posters.

And by the way - if the cloud is associated with spacecraft, how did the cloud fill the temple?

1 Kings 8 (KJV)

10 And it came to pass, when the priests were come out of the holy place, that the cloud filled the house of the LORD, 11 So that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud: for the glory of the LORD had filled the house of the LORD.

.... After The Rudiments Of The World And Not After Christ.

As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Colossians 2:6-10

Feeling A Little Spacey?

Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven....

Acts 7:42

See Jesus And Be Blessed.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:16

Speaking Of Time, Space And Beyond....

HE Really Is Coming Back!

Maranatha!

Hallelujah!

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Revelation 19:11-16

Want To Be Happy When Jesus Comes Again?

Confess, Believe And Be Saved.

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Romans 10:9-10

Love, Joe

[eric]

Beam me up Scotty, I have a date with an alien.

[None]

Ex 14:24

And it came to pass, that in the morning watch the LORD looked unto the host of the Egyptians through the pillar of fire and of the cloud, and troubled the host of the Egyptians...

We again see quite clearly that the Lord Himself was this Pillar of Fire He was amidst it.

We can draw a clear conclussion that this was the case because there is no room for interpretation at all.

I don't believe God was actually IN this cloud. I believe He was looking "through" as in, the way you can look through a telescope(for example) or a monitoring device. The way Jesus said that God sees us through the eyes of the angels who are "always in the presence of God". Are the angels omnipresent? Do the angel's leave the children they're supposed to be watching, to go tell on offenders? It seems to me, more realistically, that God can see what they see. Like God can look through their eyes.

[Guest shiloh357]

The bible says that the name of the Lord is in his angels. They would be called Lord.

Abraham spoke to the three angels sent to destroy Sodom. He refered to them as Lord.

Angels themselves are are NEVER referred to as "Lord." That is simply not true. What you fail to understand is that the various ways the word "angel" is used in the Old Testament. The word for angel is, "malakh" and simply means "messenger." In that sense anyone including a prophet or priest could be an "angel."

What you have in the case of Abraham though, is what is known as a Theophany. A Theophany is a pre-incarnate appearace of Christ. The "Angel of the Lord" is considered by most to be a Theophany. That is not to say that Christ is, or was an angel, but simply that it is how he appeared in some of his pre-incarnate appearances. The Bible makes a clear distinction between angels as created beings and the "Angel of the Lord." Often the "Angel of the Lord" is actually a reference to the presence of God, Himself. You see, the Bible reveals a God who is actively involved in the affairs of men. He did not send angels to do everything for him. He was in the fire with Shadrach, Meshech, and Abednego; He was in the Lion's den with Daniel, He went into battle ahead of the Children of Israel.

I have taken upon myself to speak unto the Lord, he said, before he spoke to the angels. Angels are refered to as Lord because God's name is in them. The scripture you showed, Ex.13:21, the Lord did go before them in the form of an angel, just like Ex. 14:19 uses the Word angel associated with the cloudy pillar. Anges are called Lord because God's name is in them.

Exodus 23:20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.

Exodus 23:21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.

This is again, not a reference to a created angel. As it is used in this passage it is a reference to the Angel of God's presence. If you continue down to verse 23, this becomes more evident.

The above is another reference to the cloudy pillar having an angel IN IT; the pillar is a flying craft. [The flying craft used its weaponry and took off the Egyptian's chariot wheels.]

You see where it says, "for my name is in him". Angels are called Lord.

The reason angels are not called "Lord" is because "Lord" in Hebrew is YHVH. This is the Divine Name of God, and angels are supernatural but are not divine. Angels have no redemptive qualities and therefore could never bear the name of YHVH. Only God has that Name. No other creature bears that Name. To suggest otherwise, is to border on heresy if not blasphemy.

Secondly as for the pillar of smoke... You are really stretching in trying to claim that the pillar was some kind of alien vehicle. Actually the pillar of smoke and the pillar of fire hearken back to the covenant that God made with Abrham in Genesis 15. In Genesis 15, when God prophesied to Abraham about the slavery and redemption from slavery of his ancestors, God showed Abraham a fiery torch and a smoking furnace by means of a vision when Abraham was put in a deep sleep. He saw a flame of fire and pillar of smoke walking between the halves, and it was a flame of fire and a pillar of smoke that was present in the fulfillment of that vision. There is no reason and no textual justification for interpreting the pillar of smoke as being any more than what it is. It is the presnce of God Hmself, leading the children of Israel out of bondage, into the promised Land.

Abraham called angels Lord.

Genesis 18:1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;

Genesis 18:2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw [them], he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,

The three angels are called Lord.

Abraham calls them Lord.

Genesis 18:27 And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which [am but] dust and ashes:

Genesis 18:28 Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for [lack of] five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it.

Again, Abraham is talking to God not merely to Angels. As noted before, this is a Theophany.

The following scriptures are evidence from the bible of what I said. Angels don't know everything, and God will send them on a task to find out for themselves. The angels went to Sodom to check it out, because they did not know.

God knew, but the angels did not; they were sent to find out for themselves.

Genesis 18:20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;

Genesis 18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

Genesis 18:22 And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD.

Why would God send the angels to find out for themselves when He could have just told them?

Well maybe because of this:

They might have felt bad about destroying a whole city full of people, if they were not certain that they deserved it. So maybe God wanted them to see for themselves that they deserved it, so they would not feel bad about it.

What you are missing is the rest of the conversation. It is obvious that God already knew. Gen 18:20 specifically tells us that it was the Lord speaking, not an angel. In fact, as you read the story, even Abraham knew the absolute wickedness of the city, and this is indicated in how he intercedes for Sodom. If God could find only 10 righteous people would he spare the city? Both Abraham and God know what the outcome would be, but God allows Abraham the opportunity to intercede. That is really the bigger issue: Why did God consult with Abraham before destroying Sodom and Ghommorah? Why didn't God just go ahead and do what he planned to do? He knew the heart of Abraham, and Abraham's nephew was living in Sodom, so Abraham had a special interest in the events about to transpire.

God uses His angels to control the genetics of the planet. Evolution is false. The 5 races were probably genetically developed by God using His angels. Angels do those things to people to control the genetics of humanity.

You might call it rape. God does not call it that. In Genesis chapter 6 where the sons of God class angels took earth women and had sex with them, it is not called rape. The children, the mighty men of renown, were genetically superior and passed those superior genes on into the human race. It enhanced the gene pool.

The alien abductees report that the memory of the incidents is often wiped clean. They need to be hypnotized to recover much of the memories of it. The angels are trying to desturb the humans as little as possible under the circumstances.

You are really out there. The "sons of God" were the righteous line of Seth, son of Adam, not aliens.

[None]

Shiloh, the "sons of God" were NOT the righteous line of Seth. If you believe it is, please back it with scripture.