Pentecostals and Charismatics Examined

[GymRose]

Neb I'm new here and I've noticed a few of your posts can I ask your stand on denominations or what church tou go to. I believe we are all one church weather Baptist, AOG, Uniting. But given your topic headings I'm curious.

[Nebuchadnezza10]

Hey Y'all,

The reason I put Pentecostals and Charismatics together is because of their similarities.

Do Charismatics not believe or practice

1. Baptism is not necessary for salvation, but is an inward sign of outward grace.

2. The gifts of the Holy Spirit (i.e. Miraculous healings and tongues) are still around today.

3. Musical instruments use in worship.

If they do then they have a lot in common with Pentecostals.

In answer to the answers of my questions. (try saying that three times over)

QUOTE: YOD

QUOTE

1. If salvation is "solely by grace," why are not all people saved since "the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men" (Titus 2:11)?

Elementary, my dear WatsonIt has "appeared" for them to make a decision of faith or not

So Are you saying that all we need is to have faith and then we

[GymRose]

Of course it matters which church, but surely not denomination!

I am going to an AOG church but as I said in one of your other threads I have also been Baptist, SalvationArmy and Uniting. These churches may be differentto yours in America though. But all have had the same teachings, from the most conservitive of them to the most peticostal if you like.

I had at one time looked in to Jehovas Witnesses and attended some meetings and yes thier veiws and beliefs are very different.

Different denominations are still the same church.

[Nebuchadnezza10]

Have you had a look at the verse above that say there is one church, not many different denominations that teach contrary to the Bible. These churches are not united.

Are They?

Further more churches are the denominations. They are a group of people that have different teachings to one another and even the bible.

[Blood Stained Soul]

Greetings in Christ! My questions is this, why are the charasmatics and pentacostals always lumped together when they are like apples and oranges...two totally different groups with different beliefs...how do I know..I go to a Church of God....I am not sure what charasmatics teach...but the following is what is tuaght at my church...

Declaration of Faith

We believe:

1. In the verbal inspiration of the Bible.

2. In one god eternally existing in three persons; namely, the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

3. That Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of the Father, conceived of the Holy Ghost, and born of the Virgin Mary. That Jesus was crucified, buried, and raised from the dead. That He ascended to heaven and is today at the right hand of the Father as the Intercessor.

4. That all have sinned and come short of the glory of God and that repentance is commanded of God for all and necessary for forgiveness of sins.

5. That justification, regeneration, and the new birth are wrought by faith in the blood of Jesus Christ.

6. In sanctification subsequent to the new birth, through faith in the blood of Christ; through the Word, and by the Holy Ghost.

7. Holiness to be God's standard of living for His people.

8. In the baptism with the Holy Ghost subsequent to a clean heart.

9. In speaking with other tongues as the Spirit gives utterance and that it is the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

10. In water baptism by immersion, and all who repent should be baptized in the name of the father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

11. Divine healing is provided for all in the atonement.

12. In the Lord's Supper and washing of the saints' feet.

13. In the premillennial second coming of Jesus. First, to resurrect the righteous dead and to catch away the living saints to Him in the air. Second, to reign on the earth a thousand years.

14. In the bodily resurrection; eternal life for the righteous, and eternal punishment for the wicked.

Doctrinal Commitments

1. Repentance. Mark 1:15; Luke 13:3; Acts 3:19.

2. Justification. Romans 5:1; Titus 3:7.

3. Regeneration. Titus 3:5.

4. New birth. John 3:3; 1Peter 1:23; 1John 3:9.

5. Sanctification subsequent to justification. Romans 5:2; 1Corinthians 1:30; 1Thessalonians 4:3; Hebrews 13:12.

6. Holiness. Luke 1:75; 1Thessalonians 4:7; Hebrews 12:14.

7. Water baptism. Matthew 28:19; Mark 1:9-10; John 3:22-23; Acts 8:36,38.

8. Baptism with the Holy Ghost subsequent to cleansing; the enduement of power for service. Matthew 3:11; Luke 24:49,53; Acts 1:4-8.

9. The speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives utterance as the inital evidence of the baptism of the Holy Ghost. John 15:26; Acts 2:4; Acts 10:44-46; Acts 19:1-7.

10. Spiritual gifts. 1Corinthians 12:1,7,10,28,31; 1Corinthians 14:1.

11. Signs following believers. Mark 16:17-20; Romans 15:18-19; Hebrews 2:4.

12. Fruit of the Spirit. Romans 6:22; Galatians 5:22-23; Ephesians 5:9; Philippians 1:11.

13. Divine healing provided for all in the atonement. Psalm 103:3; Isaiah 53:4-5; Matthew 8:17; James 5:14-16; 1Peter 2:24.

14. The Lord's Supper. Luke22:17-20; 1Corinthians 11:23-26.

15. Washing the Saints' feet. John 13:4-17; 1Timothy 5:9-10.

16. Tithing and giving. Genesis 14:18-20; Genesis 28:20-22; Malachi 3:10; Luke 11:42; 1Corinthians 9:6-9; 1Corinthians 16:2; Hebrews 7:1-21.

17. Restitution where possible. Matthew 3:8; Luke 19:8-9.

18. Premillennial second coming of Jesus. First, to resurrect the dead saints and to catch away the living saints to Him in the air. 1Corinthians 15:52; 1Thessalonians 4:15-17; 2Thessalonians 2:1.

Second, to reign on the earth a thousand years. Zechariah 14:4; 1Thessalonians 4:14; 2Thessalonians 1:7-10; Jude 14, 15; Revelation 5:10; Revelation 19:11-21; Revelation 20:4-6.

19. Resurrection. John 5:28-29; Acts 24:15; Revelation 20:5-6.

20. Eternal life for the righteous. Matthew 25:46; Luke 18:30; John 10:28; Romans 6:22; 1John 5:11-13.

21. Eternal punishment for the wicked. No liberation nor annihilation. Matthew 25:41-46; Mark 3:29; 2Thessalonians 1:8-9; Revelation 20:10-15; Revelation 21:8.

It helps to know about a group if you go to their statement of faith pages....

Again you have totally missed the point...Look at our beliefs here again...My Church DOES baptise for the remission of sins...and it is COG...which is pentacostal...charasmatics are not the same...why group them together, because we speak in tongues? Well I know of Southern Baptist preachers who do so. These broad paint strokes make no sense. Prove from the scripture I have shown how in the world the two are the same. I am not saying I push COG cause I do not agree with everything they do, I like my church though, the people, and Pastor...Sound Doctrine is taught..but in other COG I have been to they have not...so you really cannot put such generalizations on denoms and say ALL the churches in this one group are wrong.

[Nebuchadnezza10]

Ok so your Pentecostal. Fair enough.

But my point stands. COG speak in tongues, miraculous healing, prophesy, and musical instruments. This is the same as Charismatics, is it not?

And just a question. So you do believe then that baptism is necessary for salvation, that without it you cannot be saved?

[GymRose]

Totally aree with you BSS.

No one church or denomination gets it all right, period. For the simple fact each one is full of people ( which even the leadership is ) the only way to have a perfect church is to take all the people out the church, every single one.

The basic principle has to be the same, teaching and believing in Jesus, accepting he paid an extreem price that we might live.

There is far to much talk about denominations who is right who is wrong. I'll say it again I've been to many denominations and it comes down to times and seasons and Ican assure you here in Australia all those different denominations mix. We even have a meeting every so often within our community that has all our churches ( Baptist, Salvo, AOG, NCM, Uniting that is a denomination here the Uniting Church) all coming together and praising God all the leaders in our community come together no matter what denomination and pray. How could they pray and see prayers answered ( which they most certainly do ) if there was no unity.

[Blood Stained Soul]

Christ commanded we do so, so we do so in obediance to him and not out of some "religious" obligation. It is the outward showing, or profession of the inward work of grace. One can be slam dunked all they want and still go staright to hell cause your not once saved always saved. Paul spoke of this when he said he kept himself under subjection, why? So that he would not be dq'ed from the prize. So no I do not personally put a lot of emphasis on baptism..I was baptised at 16 but did not get SAVED until I was in my early 20s. For we miss the point...read Hebrews 13...Without Holiness no man shall see God!

[GymRose]

So you do believe then that baptism is necessary for salvation, that without it you cannot be saved?

Point 10 of the statement of faith I just read is taught in all the churches I have been in, but not in the context I think you maybe taking it.

Once you accept Jesus and the sacrifice he made and you truley repent and begin to change your life, you are saved, born again, going to heaven... how ever you want to put it LOL:D

But baptism is to publiclly declare the fact that you hve given your life and asked for forgiveness and for God to be the centre of your life. The must be baptised part as I have been taught is, you do it to delare and you should make that declaration.

Not that you have to be baptised to be saved.

[Nebuchadnezza10]

I agree that churches don't always get it right if their leadership is their paster, priest or so on. However if your head is Christ then i think you can get pretty close.

As to baptism, i said this i another thread bu here is what the BIBLE says on the subject, not me.

Enjoy the light reading. :oww:

Romans 6

3Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

5If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. 6For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with,[1] that we should no longer be slaves to sin-- 7because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.

8Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.

11In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires.

[COLOR=red]If we are not baptized we cannot live a new life in heaven.[/COLOR]

1 Peter 3:21 the Bible says:

"And corresponding to that, baptism now saves you (not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience) through the resurrection of Jesus Christ"

Therefore getting baptized is one step to salvation and of being saved. It does not say that it is an outward sign of inward grace.

Acts 22:16

"And now why do you delay? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name"

Therefore baptism washes away your sins. If your not baptised your sins are not washed away. Right?

Acts 2:38

"And Peter said to them, "Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins"

So i you do not repent and be BAPTISED then your sins are not forgiven.

Mark 16:16

"He who has believed and has been baptised shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned."

If you do not Believe and Be BAPTISED you are not saved. Right?

Colossians 2:12-13

"having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. And when you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our sins"

If yopur not buried with him and you do not have faith you will not be raised up with him. Right?

How else can ypou understand these verses please do explain.

P.S hope ya don't mind my forwardness