Slavery and the bible

[EricH]

Christ is not the word or the logos. The greek word for word is Lexis

Actually it is logos.

the literal greek translation should have been

[JB Horn]

I can see you have some serious confusion going on here One Of Peace. You cannot differentiate the words of Paul from the words of Christ, because they are one and the same. The entire Bible, Genesis to Revelation is the Word of God. Yes, the human vessel that wrote a large portion of the New Testament was the Apostle Paul, but the words were given to him by Christ.

John 1:1 IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 Timothy 3:16, 17

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

To say that you are going to go with Christ over Paul is not possible, as they are not contradicting each other. The Bible itself is one complete work and it all goes together. Also, you are taking the words of Jesus out of context. The two masters he was speaking of were Christ or mammon. What the Bible teaches about slaves is that they are to serve God in whatever state they are in to the best of their ability. If they became a Christian while being a slave, they were to continue to serve their master. The teachings of Paul are the teachings of Christ.

Christ is not the word or the logos. The greek word for word is Lexis

the literal greek translation should have been

[EricH]

I can see you have some serious confusion going on here One Of Peace. You cannot differentiate the words of Paul from the words of Christ, because they are one and the same. The entire Bible, Genesis to Revelation is the Word of God. Yes, the human vessel that wrote a large portion of the New Testament was the Apostle Paul, but the words were given to him by Christ.

John 1:1 IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 Timothy 3:16, 17

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

To say that you are going to go with Christ over Paul is not possible, as they are not contradicting each other. The Bible itself is one complete work and it all goes together. Also, you are taking the words of Jesus out of context. The two masters he was speaking of were Christ or mammon. What the Bible teaches about slaves is that they are to serve God in whatever state they are in to the best of their ability. If they became a Christian while being a slave, they were to continue to serve their master. The teachings of Paul are the teachings of Christ.

Christ is not the word or the logos. The greek word for word is Lexis

the literal greek translation should have been

[damo1]

from damo1

about slavery and the bible mostly diffrent what happend in amreica and what is happening around the world today wear many are bounded to this is not on what gods word states slavery could mean anything for example past habbits what are we addicted to and what are we alowing our selves to be slaves to then wear in my friends country in india there are familys that can not offerd to feed there kids so kids are sold and these kids work of that debdt that has been payed of to the parents the child is a slave to the person who bought them until that debt is fully payed also girls and women are sold in to prostitution by there familys this is a big thing know it is even a big problem in my partners country wear people are poor and wear women are manipulated

know comming to gods word the apostle paul shares some insight in 1 corinthians

9 vesre 19=23

though i am free and belong to no man i make my self a slave to every one to win as many as possible

paul became like those who he wanted to reach out and bring into the kingdom

in ephesians 6 verse 9 paul again points out how one should live according to gods word no matter what circumstances they find them selves and he gives instructions not just to slaves but also to the masters

and masters treat your slaves in the same way do not threaten them since you know that he who is both there master and yours is in heaven and there is no favortism in heaven

in those days wealthy christians had slaves and the slaves worked hard and some wear treated harshly by ther masters who wear not christians

so slavery can mean anything depending on how you might look at it or what you are trying to look at and understand

from damo1

[Leonard]

Well, comparing the cruel form of slavery with the 'slavery' of the Bible is comparing apples and oranges. They were very different.

Under the American system the slave was chattel property. He could be abused in any fashion, and had no legal standing to protest his treatment. The slaves of the Bible had specifically protected legal rights, and could not be so abused.

Can you verify the slaves of the bible had legal rights? Not saying they didn't just want to avoid confusion. somrtimes what

make sense isn't always the truth.

Slavery or servitude is a man-made law yet the bible says:

"Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;"

It says follow the fleshly law, man's law with fear as you would fear christ. Not with actions just to be favored by your

master but as you would serve God's will. This is actually not christ words but that of Paul. they differ.

Christ says ye can not serve two masters lest ye love one and hate the other.

Im going with christ on this one. Who do you hate? Im not serving someone as I would Christ I'm sorry.

Now you are confusing the Roman slavery we find at the time of the New Testament with the 'slavery' authorized under the Mosaic law of the Old Testament. God NEVER certified that the Roman brand of slavery (virtually identical to that which was practiced in the antebellum South)! However the Lord instructed those in the position of slave to serve their masters well.

[MeCajunboy]

The phraseology of your question is a little vague to me. Could you ask your question another way?

To whom does who 'show favor?'

Well, being that most africans were converted to christianity by there Master. I was wondering if The Christian Master prays

that he does well with this newly slave he brought while the slave prays to be free one day, who does God favor to?

Bibs, is correct. We are seaking of two different types of slavery. And You might want to take time out of your life to read on "slavery" in the Bible. You may find that God never encouraged slavery, although it is mentioned many times. In some cases, Jesus even spoke of the Slave owner allowing his slaves to eat at the table with his family. This is how Jesus revered the slave. He felt as though they should be treated as an equal. But don't take my word for it.....Develop your own thoughts ! All you have to do is go to your index and seach of "slavery." You will be amazed!

[one of peace]

The God of the Bible does have a name, Jehovah. This name is mentioned several times throughout the Old Testament. He also refers to himself as "I am." His son Jesus Christ, is also God. So is the Holy Spirit. Christ is also refered to as "The Word." I know who I believe in. I also know that the entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation is the Word of God, and that you cannot pick and choose to believe what Jesus said and reject what Paul said. In addition, in case you didn't realize it, even the words of Christ were penned by human vessels besides Christ himself. There is no book penned directly by the Lord, yet the entire Bible contains his teachings.

Since the J in the English language was the last letter added to the alphabet in the 1500's what did they call him before that? When did the KJV started using the Jehovah "name" and from what name did they get there there translation? The bible states that women are not allowed to speak in the church. Is that also God's word? Is it possible that even though revelation says, anyone that adds to or take away from the bible so to shall his name be taking away from the book of life, someone could have added to the bible? Is that not possible, couldn't someone with evil intentions corrupt the bible? Do I have the right to ask? No really, because christianity built its church on the bodys of the innocents. They sent them to a burning stake of hell (peace be upon them). Roman have a way of adapting there mythology with every aspect of there lives as they did with there new religion called christianity. There adopted Kristos-Krishna from the the hindus. Everything in the bible is a plagerization of storys like the Gilgamesh epics(bet you haven't read it), the writings of Confucius, The egyptian book of the dead, The tablet of Adafa, tablet of Ishtar and Tammuz, the Sumerian tablets, the Akkadian tablets. All of these pre-date your bible. Like you said the Bible was written by man for his worship thats why you only see images of this christ in his so called fleshly form even though no one knows what he looked like. So everyone looks up at sisteen chapel and says oh thats what God looks like. A painter calls himselk Michaelanglo because the angel michael was closest to God so he would know his image. You worship an idol, a huge cross with a dead man on it is an idol. The exact opposite and adaption of the ankh: the symbol of life. The cross is the symbol of the SUN not son which is why you the KKK burning the cross to represent the cross. LooK up sun cross, see for yourself.

[one of peace]

The God of the Bible does have a name, Jehovah. This name is mentioned several times throughout the Old Testament. He also refers to himself as "I am." His son Jesus Christ, is also God. So is the Holy Spirit. Christ is also refered to as "The Word." I know who I believe in. I also know that the entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation is the Word of God, and that you cannot pick and choose to believe what Jesus said and reject what Paul said. In addition, in case you didn't realize it, even the words of Christ were penned by human vessels besides Christ himself. There is no book penned directly by the Lord, yet the entire Bible contains his teachings.

Since the J in the English language was the last letter added to the alphabet in the 1500's what did they call him before that? When did the KJV started using the Jehovah "name" and from what name did they get there there translation? The bible states that women are not allowed to speak in the church. Is that also God's word? Is it possible that even though revelation says, anyone that adds to or take away from the bible so to shall his name be taking away from the book of life, someone could have added to the bible? Is that not possible, couldn't someone with evil intentions corrupt the bible? Do I have the right to ask? No really, because christianity built its church on the bodys of the innocents. They sent them to a burning stake of hell (peace be upon them). Roman have a way of adapting there mythology with every aspect of there lives as they did with there new religion called christianity. There adopted Kristos-Krishna from the the hindus. Everything in the bible is a plagerization of storys like the Gilgamesh epics(bet you haven't read it), the writings of Confucius, The egyptian book of the dead, The tablet of Adafa, tablet of Ishtar and Tammuz, the Sumerian tablets, the Akkadian tablets. All of these pre-date your bible. Like you said the Bible was written by man for his worship thats why you only see images of this christ in his so called fleshly form even though no one knows what he looked like. So everyone looks up at sisteen chapel and says oh thats what God looks like. A painter calls himselk Michaelanglo because the angel michael was closest to God so he would know his image. You worship an idol, a huge cross with a dead man on it is an idol. The exact opposite and adaption of the ankh: the symbol of life. The cross is the symbol of the SUN not son which is why you the KKK burning the cross to represent the cross. LooK up sun cross, see for yourself.

Concerning the highlighted comments, I never made such a statement. I said that the entire Bible was written by men, inspired by the Holy Ghost, and that they are the words of God. I have read lies like the ones you are pushing here from atheists in the past, and it is obvious to me you are not a Christian. If I am not mistaken, you are in violation of the TOS by not stating that you are an unbeliever.

As for my position in the matter, I believe in the innerancy of scripture, from Genesis to Revelation. Though written by men, the words were given by God. The words written were not plagerized from anywhere. False religions are in reality based on Christianity. Just like God inspired holy men to write scripture, Satan inspired false religions, and based them on worship of the true God.

By the way, you claim we worship idols. At first glance, I would have assumed you to be an atheist, but to believe it is possible to worship idols, you would have to believe in the existence of a true God. Who is that true God in your mind?

I would have assumed you were a monotheist but to accept there is a 1 true God you would have to believe there are other Gods. Your God is a Jealous God right. Jealous of what if there are no other Gods? Isn't that a human and emotion. And no I don't execpt your Jesus aka Dammuzi aka Osiris aka Tammuz, Usir, Dionyushadest aka Yashu'a as my true god.

You said:"Just like God inspired holy men to write scripture, Satan inspired false religions, and based them on worship of the true God."

yeah its called the bible all the tablets predate your bible and your claim of the birth of Jesus yet you say they somehow jumped in their ship, went to the past and then went back, and created a civilation after the bible. Prove it.

Prove the characters in the bible exist. Researchers have they found the tomb of Osiris where is jesus Tomb. I dare you to go to the egyptian Musems there story of Osiris, Horus, and Set. What about Enqi, Enlil, and Damkina? Your whole religion came out of these stories. A true Christian even be a Roman Chatholic. They were the First and then came the denomination. I guess they didn't like the story and decided to revise it. Don't tell me that the bible is the word of God when it's not even in the orginal word that it was given. The KJV is a REVISED version stamped by a ruler of man. The council translated from latin vulgate text. If you want to read the word of God then read it in the orginal Hebrew launguage. You will find it is a diffirent bible. You are worshipping a sun god. Da vinci new this when he painted the LAST SUPPER. The painting:12 Diciples with the son in the middle. The Zodiac 12 months with the sun in the middle. Just like the Kinghts of the round table. Your "word" of God was forced in the homes by the crusades, the roman empire, the missionaries(like in Iraq). Lets bomb them and then give them a religion with false hopes. If they don't accept it lets tell them that the bible says they will burn in hell(another bombing). God will stop it if you only believe. A even trade huh? You can not justify anything or prove anything using the bible. Your Earth started 6000 years ago. Yet, science can prove that its was here billions of years. Oh you know, the same science that heals people and help invent this computer you are using. Your bible talks about the exisistince of Unicorns yet not about dinosaurs, a terrible lizard. It talks about a fire breathing dragon. All my claims can be proven can yours? Everything I mentioned in the previous post you didn't even bother to answer. Like the silence of woman in your

bible. When you read it were you shocked? History has shown MAN did not respect woman it shows in the bible. Or maybe it was added making your bible not the word of god as you claim but man's word and law for other men. Like I said the only "mythology" that can be proven is the Ancient Egptian's. the people in the story existed. There are tombs of remus and romules and I certainly don't believe men are raised on the tits of wolves. I hope you will one day look up my claims and see for yourself as I did. it really up to you. You have will but it's not free.

[Eddie B]

The God of the Bible does have a name, Jehovah. This name is mentioned several times throughout the Old Testament. He also refers to himself as "I am." His son Jesus Christ, is also God. So is the Holy Spirit. Christ is also refered to as "The Word." I know who I believe in. I also know that the entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation is the Word of God, and that you cannot pick and choose to believe what Jesus said and reject what Paul said. In addition, in case you didn't realize it, even the words of Christ were penned by human vessels besides Christ himself. There is no book penned directly by the Lord, yet the entire Bible contains his teachings.

Amen, I secound that.

Phi 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Phi 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Phi 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

Phi 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Phi 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Phi 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

[Sherman]

Good morning everyone,

Concerning the original topic of this thread, slavery, I believe that many of the things mentioned in the bible were "Descriptive" as opposed to "Prescriptive." Slavery is a good example of this. Slavery was a common social system of that day. It was practiced in all cultures, to my knowledge, Jews, Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, Babylonians, Meads and Persians, etc. Slavery, the a social system, was "Descriptive"; it was the way things were. Does that mean that slavery is "Prescriptive", the way things should be? I do not believe so. I believe that slavery was and is a wicked, twisted, evil social system.

Why then did Moses regulate slavery as opposed to putting an end to slavery? Because Moses did good in that day and age to regulate slavery. Social change, good or evil, is progressive. It takes time and the ongoing influence of good to bring lasting social change. Furthermore, Moses' primary calling was the deliverance of the Israelites from slavery under the Egyptians, and their subsequent establishment as the nation of Israel.

Jesus too did not oppose slavery, why? I believe it was because Jesus' mission was to bring redemption to man that we might not be slaves to sin, but be free to love God and our fellow man. Jesus did not come to bring change to social systems, even the Jewish social systems; but He came to bring freedom to men's souls regardless of what social system they find themselves in.

The Apostle Paul too did not oppose slavery; he even directed a converted run-away slave to return to his master, why? Because Paul's mission was to take the Gospel, the good news of God's love and forgiveness in Jesus to the Gentiles, non-Jews. His call and mission from the Lord was to communicate the Gospel; he was not commissioned to change the Gentiles social order, much less abolish slavery.

So does this mean that slavery should be practiced today? Because it was not forbidden in the Bible, does it mean that slavery is not an evil social system that should be abolished? I think not. I believe that the social system of slavery was and is evil. It empowers people to oppress others; and it hobbles the oppressed. It should be abolished throughout the world. And I'm thankful for those whom God has inspired to bring such change in the social order. If you have not seen the movie "Amazing Grace", I highly recommend it.

I believe that revelation is progressive, and that God still inspires and commissions people today. And some people have very unique callings, and are called to bring postitive change in society. Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called children of God! Not only are we as individuals corrupt and in need of change, but our social systems are also corrupt and in need of change.

So, slavery in the Bible was "Descriptive", the way things were; but slavery is certainly NOT "Prescriptive", as in the way things should be!

Blessings,

Sherman