The "inspired Word of God"

[Guest mcm42]

Christ gave his church the gift of the Holy spirit. The Holy Spirit inspired the Church to write a bible. The church had the gift of infallibility, before it had the bible.

I think I missed something... are you saying that because we have the Holy Spirit we are all inspired?

I don't think this is what you're saying, or I hope not...

Please clarify what you mean... Thanks

[jmwhalen]

Nicholas writes:

"You do not believe God is almighty do you?

Can God work infallible through fallible men?

Can God use a fallible man to have an infallible idea?

Is the Holy Spirit's work fallible?

Did God give the Holy Spirit to the Apostles on Pentecost?

You do not have a problem with the Catholic Church, you have a problem with an Almighty God.

It is not circular logic. It is divine. God gave us Christ. Christ established a church. Christ gave his church the gift of the Holy spirit. The Holy Spirit inspired the Church to write a bible. The church had the gift of infallibility, before it had the bible. How do we know this? Because the Catholic Church is present today. Just as it was present before the new testament. The members of the Body of Christ are present. Not because we have a bible, but because we are a part of Christ's Body."

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My response:

You ask:

Can God work infallible through fallible men?

Can God use a fallible man to have an infallible idea?

Yes, Yes, and He did. That is my point. But my question was in response to Mobile21, who denied this. You missed the point, which was that God has preserved His Word. The Word of God is the source of truth, not some "mystical church"(Mobile 21's words), and certainly not some organization like the RCC that preaches "another gospel".The church, which is His body, supports the truth, and is not the source of truth, as I showed you in "5th grade English" from God's word. You can make assumptions/statements all day long, but that does not make them true.

Is the Holy Spirit's work fallible?Yes And the Holy Spirit used fallible men to write(scripture means "writings") His infallible Word.

Did God give the Holy Spirit to the Apostles on Pentecost? Yes. (And on another subject, there are no apostles around today-the Biblical requirement to be called an apostle cannot be met today-I will show you this in scripture if you would like. But then again, you are not allowed to interpret scripture-This is reserved for the RCC Magesterium).

You say "The Church had the gift of infallibility, before it had the Bible". You again, like all Catholics, make assertions, assumptions, without any evidence. Where in the Bible does it say this? That is a non-sensical statement, since "the Church" is people, and if these people were infallible, then you deny that the Lord Jesus Christ is the only infallible human being to have walked this earth., and a denial of scripture, which states that the Word of God has God as it's source, which is inspiration, not the Church. Yes, God used fallible men to write the infallibleWord of God. You can deny this all day long, but it is true, according to God's Word. The words are inspired, not the men or "the Church".

"The Church had the gift of infalibity before it had the Bible".

See above that this is a denial of scripture, but even assuming it is true-So, how was scripture infallible in for example, 1000 B.C., since Christ had not yet established "the Church"

You again chronologically contradict yourself, saying "God gave us Christ, Christ established a Church", and then "

[Douay]

Being led by the Holy Spirit is what Nick is talking about, not strictly infallibility. Any time any mention of the word infallible comes up on here it gets severely taken out of context. The Catholic Church is the fulfillment of Judaism. Before Christ the Jews were God's people, after that the Christians were. The OT was kept and the entire Bible was approved a couple of hundred years later. God gave the Church leaders the gift of the Holy Spirit in the time of the apostles to discern the Word of God. That is where the authority comes from, that gift of God. That is where the authority to approve a Bible with particular writings came from.

[JesusisGod2]

Being led by the Holy Spirit is what Nick is talking about, not strictly infallibility.

Hi Douay,

Anyone who is born again is lead by the Holy Spirit, however that doesnt make that man infalliable, just forgiven. However God and the word of God are infalliable.

  Any time any mention of the word infallible comes up on here it gets severely taken out of context.

The reason for this is that anything that the pope says, to the catholic faith it is gospel, whether it goes against scripture or not.

The Catholic Church is the fulfillment of Judaism.

The fulfillment of Judaism? no offence meant, but can you explain what you mean by this, and then correlate that with the word of God. I have heard of the time of the gentiles being fulfilled, but not the fulfillment of Judaism.

  Before Christ the Jews were God's people, after that the Christians were.

The Jews are still Gods people, the church is the bride of Christ. A special people sure, but the church did not make the Jews orphans.

  The OT was kept and the entire Bible was approved a couple of hundred years later.  God gave the Church leaders the gift of the Holy Spirit in the time of the apostles to discern the Word of God.

God poured out the Holy Spirit to all who believed at Pentecost and beyond and is stiil giving His Holy Spirit to all who ask Him. This is the free gift of God, the Holy Spirit who gives new life to all are born again.

Do you have the Holy Spirit Duoay? if Not you can recieve Him as well, we need but look to Jesus who died for our sins, and rose from the grave, and all who are born again recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit.

That is where the authority comes from, that gift of God.

Again if what you mean by "that Gift" as being the Holy Spirit, all born again believers recieve "that Gift"

That is where the authority to approve a Bible with particular writings came from.

The scriptures are approved by God, not man. God looks over His word to see that it does what He has set it out to do.

God bless

Kevin

[jmwhalen]

Douay writes:

"Being led by the Holy Spirit is what Nick is talking about, not strictly infallibility. Any time any mention of the word infallible comes up on here it gets severely taken out of context. The Catholic Church is the fulfillment of Judaism. Before Christ the Jews were God's people, after that the Christians were. The OT was kept and the entire Bible was approved a couple of hundred years later. God gave the Church leaders the gift of the Holy Spirit in the time of the apostles to discern the Word of God. That is where the authority comes from, that gift of God. That is where the authority to approve a Bible with particular writings came from. "

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No, Douay-infallibility means without error. "5th grade English"

As is typical of RCC proponents, you make assertion/opinions, not an argument-no evidence from "the scripure of truth"(Daniel 10:21) is provided.

"The RCC is the fullfillment of Judaism". That is an assumption, an assertion, not an argument.

"....the entire Bible was approved a couple of hundred years later". Huh? Where was scripture prior to this?

"God gave the Church leaders the gift of the Holy Spirit to discern the Word of God". Are you saying that this was given only to "Church leaders"? Who are they? And where in the Bible does it say it was given only to "Church leaders"? Were the Bereans of Acts 17:11 "Church leaders"? Was Timothy not able to discern scriptures?- "And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures..."(2 Tim. 3:15). Was Timothy a "Church Leader" as a child?These are just 2 of many example of where the "ordinary" person, for the lack of a better term, was expected to be able to "discern" the scriptures-this "discernment" was not just limited to an exclusive group of "Church leaders", despite the RCC's claims. Even if this was true, how can we "discern the Word of God" today, since these Church leaders are dead, the Apostles are dead, and there are no more apostles based on God's Word?

[Guest mcm42]

infallibility means without error. "5th grade English"

:oww:

That's funny

[mobile21]

You say:

"You are the one who tries to draw an impossible conclusion: that a fallible group of men somehow crafted an infallible document. That's an absurd statement because "you can't give what you don't have".

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Twisted logic:

[His son]

2 Tim 3:16-17

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

2 Pet 1:20

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

2 Sam 14:14

14 For we must needs die, and are as water spilt on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again; neither doth God respect any person: yet doth he devise means, that his banished be not expelled from him.

Job 37:24

24 Men do therefore fear him: he respecteth not any that are wise of heart.

How can someone claim to believe God and ignore all The Scriptures that He has written in respect to The integrity of His Scriptures. He tells us that He is not a respector of persons, yet men istist that He respected the Hebrews, and Greeks so much that the only truth we can get is from their languages. It has been stated that if He doesn't respect persons, and Him being pure justice how can one come to the conclusion that He would have to create anything more than once. He created every language that men anywhere can speak, and when it comes time for them to receive His engrafted Word He will inspire some one to transtlate The Bilbe from that persons language into the new language, and He sure doesn't need any approval or correction in His methods from any man regardless of how worldly wise they may be or how many degrees they might have from the worldly institutes of so called higher learning. He is God and He does know how to communicate with anyone He wants to and do it according to His knowledge of their ability to comprehend. All of these things should be obvious to any one who reads God's Word. And there are the testamonies of missionaries who have preached in foriengn country's who using interpreters find out later that the interpreters didn't speak a word because those people were hearing what the missionary was preaching in His language in their language. God has never, does not now nor will He ever need any man to aid Him in communicating with anyone any where in this universe, and the sooner we all get this Truth down into our spirits, and quit trying to correct God, the sooner we will be able to concentrate on our personal relationship with Him and growing in that relationship. He tells us how to do that In The Bible. And when we get that system firmly fixed in our hearts and minds, then we will have a True Testimony of how those Scritpures have been lived in our lives.

Eccl 12:12-13

12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.

13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

(KJV)

[jmwhalen]

You say:

"You are the one who tries to draw an impossible conclusion: that a fallible group of men somehow crafted an infallible document. That's an absurd statement because "you can't give what you don't have".

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Twisted logic: