Baptism and Gift of the Holy Spirit

[Sherman]

Hey Greg, the following is from post #16.

To break down Acts 2 to clarify the difference between the baptism and gift of the Holy Spirit, verses 2 and 3 describe the baptism of the Holy Spirit and the resulting new spirit each believer received, which was visually manifested as a sign to all that they had recieved the new spirit. Verse 4 describes the additional work of being filled with the Holy Spirit and the manifestation that all believers can expect, the speaking in tongues. Note the word "and" at the beginning of verse 4.

2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

I believe that the apostles and others in the group had already been born of the Spirit, some through faith in God before the revelation of Jesus, and others during the physical ministry of Jesus on earth, and Thomas apparently didn't come to faith until after Jesus' ressurection but before this event. Thus this scripture is refering to the baptism in the Spirit exclusively, and not refering to being born of the Spirit. Also note that the word "filled" is used in vss. 2 and 4. So the Spirit filled the whole house with visible manifestations of His presence, so much so that it was particularly noted that He filled those present. The physical manifestation of the Spirit filling the house was there seemed to be flames of fire on each present. And the physical manifestation of the Spirit filling every person there was them individually beginning to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them. To draw a line between vss. 3 & 4 seems to me to be very artificial and empossed on the text, not something that would come from the text.

But you know, really it's a very difficult line to draw between the two experiences, being born of the Spirit and being baptized (filled, overwhelmed with) with the Spirit because it is the same medium and accomplishes many of the same things, to a greater or lesser degree. If we're not careful we could become like a bunch of color-blind men arguing over shades of green.

Many in Pentecostal/Charismatic circles argue over whether or not tongues is the initial sign of being baptized in the Holy Spirit. From the cases in Acts there is a pretty strong case that such is normative, but it's not conclusive. And there is certainly no place that specifically says that tongues is the initial or primary evidence of being filled with the Spirit. But I do believe that every believer can ask to be filled, be filled by faith in Christ, and speak in tongues. If not then why would scripture say, "I wish you all prayed in tongues"? But that's for another thread.

I appreciate your grace-filled replies Greg and blessings upon you and your house!

Sherman

Edited October 18, 2007 by Sherman

[Guest Greg Davies]

But you know, really it's a very difficult line to draw between the two experiences, being born of the Spirit and being baptized (filled, overwhelmed with) with the Spirit because it is the same medium and accomplishes many of the same things, to a greater or lesser degree. If we're not careful we could become like a bunch of color-blind men arguing over shades of green.

Many in Pentecostal/Charismatic circles argue over whether or not tongues is the initial sign of being baptized in the Holy Spirit. From the cases in Acts there is a pretty strong case that such is normative, but it's not conclusive. And there is certainly no place that specifically says that tongues is the initial or primary evidence of being filled with the Spirit. But I do believe that every believer can ask to be filled, be filled by faith in Christ, and speak in tongues. If not then why would scripture say, "I wish you all prayed in tongues"? But that's for another thread.

I appreciate your grace-filled replies Greg and blessings upon you and your house!

Sherman

Well hallelujah! I suspect Jesus will clarify this all for us soon enough. Bless God.

I do believe all believers should be filled and pray in tongues. Paul tells us in I Cor. 14 that we edifiy ourselves when we pray in the unknown tongue and if we are not edyfied, how can we expect to edyfiy the church. In verse 15, refering to tongues as praying in the spirit, we find a confirmation for understanding Jude 20. This how we build up our most holy faith; by praying in the Holy Ghost.

Oh, that all would receive this truth. What a victorious and powerful church we would have, filled with the love of God which is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit!

Greg.

P.S. I don't mind starting a new thread.

[Sherman]

Greg - Amen!

And maybe we could start a thread on the benefits of tongues.

Blessings,

Sherman