Gore wins; facts lose

[ted]

I don't defend Al Gore so much as deride your biased and prejudiced blindness..

Ok, OK...we get it. We'll be good little Liberals and bow down to everything that comes out of Al Gore's mouth without question. Global warming is real, and Al created the internet......

no one said anything about becoming a liberal, or buying into any ideas without facts. I said you should NOT base your 'facts' on political bias and misinformation. And I didn't defend Al Gore either or suggest he is right. I call into question the use of incomplete or bias motivated information as complete truth and fact (which BOTH sides use)

Be a good CHRISTIAN and find your facts in TRUTH and the Love of Christ, not some political rhetoric.

Would you entertain the slight possibility that people like us have done the research on both sides of the issue and use that as a basis for our disagreements with people like Gore rather than simple copy-cat rhetoric?

Just because some people happen to have reason to dispute "Gore's" evidence, that doesn't mean those same people are simply falling in line with Gore's opposition blindly.

There is good reason to take a deeper look into the things Al Gore is doing with shaky information. For one, it could cost a lot of people a lot of money due to his idiotic projects and programs. "Carbon Credits" are probably only a simplistic glimpse of worse things to come if this nonsense continues at such a rate.

Some refered to scientists who believed we were going into a mini ice age not so long ago. Can you imagine the money that would have been stripped from people's hands if that garbage took off and snowballed (pardon the pun)?

Today, we face the exact same situation and potential for idiocy if these people scare enough other people with a conclusion that may not be fully understood. The only difference is that we use "warming" these days instead of "cooling" when talking about a "certain" global catastrophe.

People like Gore are poised to make millions from junk programs with this stuff. Does that not tweek your intellect in the least? Of course he's making this his life's work at the moment. If he can scare enough people, he is set to make himself hugely comfortable finacially. And it won't stop with him, either. Many other industries are going to have to change the way they do business if they are going to survive. Already, we see changes in the auto industry, as well and a host of others. And for what, a planned scare tactic?

If I played the stock market, I'd be looking into companies that are getting ready for the next fads that are connected to anything to do with global warming.

This could work out to be the biggest scam the world has ever seen, but yet people are not thinking clearly. They give Gore awards for his brilliance in getting his pet message out, all the while further cheapening those already tainted awards. The only thing you have to do to win those things is have the best plan and project to make Bush look stupid. Do that better than everyone else, and you're in the running.

I take good, hard looks into these games and check out the science behind them. While I'm not a scientist by any stretch of the title, and certainly would not ever claim to be, I can truly tell when the water running down my back is rain or something else entirely.

People like Gore are nothing but modern day snake oil salesmen who whip up a frenzy wherever they go and watch the masses flock to their product, which they peddle as the one sure way to deal with the problem.

Remember, Gore was the biggest advocate for the tobacco industry until he saw the shift in the wind. Once he caught onto that much, he turned his sails into the newest wind and rode it into the ground. Of course, he even used the sypmathy factor by bringing his sister into the mix and used her situation as the "real" reason he switched gears.

He's nothing but a political huckster, and would be the last one I turned to to get my information concerning global warming and mankind's role in the situation. That would be like going to a Ford dealer for information about the new Dodge Charger. Of course he'll say that the Mustang blows it's doors off!

So, while you feel the need to assume that people who question the proposed realities of something like global warming are nothing but robots for the opposition, you might as well figure that some people have actually looked into the matter, and find reason to question what's being shoved down our throats.

Just as you are intelligent enough to form an unbiased opinion on the matter, so are others. That does not mean that we are questioning Gore's factoring into the mix simply because he's Al Gore, but we truly are interested in seeing what it all means, independent of people who are out there getting awards for no logical reason.

Onward,

t.

[Frosted Sun]

Is it more profitable to attack global warming or is it more profitable to have a war?

[JustinM]

What's your point?

War is profitable to weapons and ammunition manufacturers, but not the government. "Fighting" climate change can be very profitable to the government if we are all charged a "carbon tax."

The tax would be based on carbon emissions. You know what, we emit carbon by breathing, so are we then going to be taxed to breathe? How rediculous is that concept? It's like being taxed for using the bathroom, or for sleeping. But, just because the idea of taxing breathing sounds absurd, there's nothing funny about that possibility.

We all know that once we give the government something, we never get it back and the government just comes back asking for more. Call it progressive carbon taxation. First they will tax the wealthy and when the wealthy change their lifestyle to be more "carbon neutral" they will have to find another source of revenue and will increase the carbon tax, or "revise" the carbon tax to include more taxable things. It can happen.

[Celtic Warrior]

I don't defend Al Gore so much as deride your biased and prejudiced blindness..

Ok, OK...we get it. We'll be good little Liberals and bow down to everything that comes out of Al Gore's mouth without question. Global warming is real, and Al created the internet......

no one said anything about becoming a liberal, or buying into any ideas without facts. I said you should NOT base your 'facts' on political bias and misinformation. And I didn't defend Al Gore either or suggest he is right. I call into question the use of incomplete or bias motivated information as complete truth and fact (which BOTH sides use)

Be a good CHRISTIAN and find your facts in TRUTH and the Love of Christ, not some political rhetoric.

Would you entertain the slight possibility that people like us have done the research on both sides of the issue and use that as a basis for our disagreements with people like Gore rather than simple copy-cat rhetoric?

Yes, I would entertain that SOME 'people like you' have done research, and those who truly seek facts (and debate on the facts alone) I can respect and even find common ground on. My issue is using personallity attacks and other smoke n mirror tactics to 'prove' your 'facts' or point of view. Whether you dislike Al Gore, or hate liberals has NO bearing on whether the information presented is factual or not. Sadly too many presentations 'on the facts' are actually character assassinations and from THAT perspective they then "PROVE their point". Sorry but it doesn't work that way. However what is true is that if you present a lie that tends to support what people already think is true, they will accept it WITHOUT QUESTION. ESPECIALLY if it includes character attacks that also support their current biases. I don't really care if you accept Global Warming as a man made problem or not, (or other issues) as long as the presentation is based on facts (as you understand them), a willingness to discuss (and maybe see things the other side presents you may not have known) AND a serious lack of political methodology (lies, half truths, gossip, slander, hate statements, politically slanted OPINIONS, etc)

Just because some people happen to have reason to dispute "Gore's" evidence, that doesn't mean those same people are simply falling in line with Gore's opposition blindly.

There is good reason to take a deeper look into the things Al Gore is doing with shaky information. For one, it could cost a lot of people a lot of money due to his idiotic projects and programs. "Carbon Credits" are probably only a simplistic glimpse of worse things to come if this nonsense continues at such a rate.

Some refered to scientists who believed we were going into a mini ice age not so long ago. Can you imagine the money that would have been stripped from people's hands if that garbage took off and snowballed (pardon the pun)?

Today, we face the exact same situation and potential for idiocy if these people scare enough other people with a conclusion that may not be fully understood. The only difference is that we use "warming" these days instead of "cooling" when talking about a "certain" global catastrophe.

People like Gore are poised to make millions from junk programs with this stuff. Does that not tweek your intellect in the least? Of course he's making this his life's work at the moment. If he can scare enough people, he is set to make himself hugely comfortable finacially. And it won't stop with him, either. Many other industries are going to have to change the way they do business if they are going to survive. Already, we see changes in the auto industry, as well and a host of others. And for what, a planned scare tactic?

If I played the stock market, I'd be looking into companies that are getting ready for the next fads that are connected to anything to do with global warming.

This could work out to be the biggest scam the world has ever seen, but yet people are not thinking clearly. They give Gore awards for his brilliance in getting his pet message out, all the while further cheapening those already tainted awards. The only thing you have to do to win those things is have the best plan and project to make Bush look stupid. Do that better than everyone else, and you're in the running.

I take good, hard looks into these games and check out the science behind them. While I'm not a scientist by any stretch of the title, and certainly would not ever claim to be, I can truly tell when the water running down my back is rain or something else entirely.

People like Gore are nothing but modern day snake oil salesmen who whip up a frenzy wherever they go and watch the masses flock to their product, which they peddle as the one sure way to deal with the problem.

Remember, Gore was the biggest advocate for the tobacco industry until he saw the shift in the wind. Once he caught onto that much, he turned his sails into the newest wind and rode it into the ground. Of course, he even used the sypmathy factor by bringing his sister into the mix and used her situation as the "real" reason he switched gears.

He's nothing but a political huckster, and would be the last one I turned to to get my information concerning global warming and mankind's role in the situation. That would be like going to a Ford dealer for information about the new Dodge Charger. Of course he'll say that the Mustang blows it's doors off!

So, while you feel the need to assume that people who question the proposed realities of something like global warming are nothing but robots for the opposition, you might as well figure that some people have actually looked into the matter, and find reason to question what's being shoved down our throats.

Just as you are intelligent enough to form an unbiased opinion on the matter, so are others. That does not mean that we are questioning Gore's factoring into the mix simply because he's Al Gore, but we truly are interested in seeing what it all means, independent of people who are out there getting awards for no logical reason.

Onward,

t.

Sadly, the same conservative argument paths were used against the hole in the Ozone Layer. Butero posted a comment about "Global Cooling" in the 70's. While I won't dispute that MIGHT have happened, I NEVER saw that, however what I did see was an alarm about the growing Hole in the Ozone Layer. And conservatives & industrialists used the same exact arguments against that then.

(ie There is NO problem

2 It's NOT MANMADE, it's Natural and will fix itself in time

3 It would cost too much in jobs, resources, etc to fix it

and other garbage excuses)

AND when the 'liberals' (ie concerned people) actually managed to do something about it AND stopped the introduction of gases into the atmosphere (which did stop the growth and the hole, and it's now even showing signs of shrinking finally). The nay sayers are claiming it's not because of the laws and that we stopped the pollution, but it is just a natural thing. Sad, always blind eyes leading more blind eyes. Wait until it's too late and then go "Oh MY GOSH, NOW WHAT CAN WE DO?"

Whether Global Warming is happening is no longer in debate, it's cause is still in debate though (to a point). However, isn't it better to take actions that are NOT needed, and have nothing bad happen, than to ignore the problem (or pretend it doesn't exist) and find out too late that it really was a serious problem ?

However, I really didn't come here to debate Global Warming, but to remind Christians that using GOSSIP, HALF TRUTHS, CHARACTER ASSASSINATION, MISDIRECTION, INNUENDO, and other WORLD SYSTEM methods is not only UN Christlike, it's also helpful in making Christianity a bad thing in the eyes of the very people we claim we want to win over to God. IF we want to win them over, we need to be honest and truthful AND LOVING EVEN WHEN IT DOESN'T HELP OUR POLITICAL AGENDA'S

As I understand it THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE A CHRISTIAN BOARD, not a political sounding board for right wing (or left wing) propaganda or personal attacks. Satan is very much alive and well (and in FULL action) in the Right wing as well. If you don't believe it, stand back from your biases for awhile and see how you appear to the outsider (and NO this is not a comment about YOU personally, but all politically biased Christians)

Edited October 26, 2007 by Celtic Warrior

[boblandis]

I love it when people with common sense intelligence to know that Al Gore can't tell the truth to save his life. In the long run, people will still believe him all the more and make him king of the Gaia movement; but it is still refreshing anyway.

[ted]

As I understand it THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE A CHRISTIAN BOARD, not a political sounding board for right wing (or left wing) propaganda or personal attacks. Satan is very much alive and well (and in FULL action) in the Right wing as well. If you don't believe it, stand back from your biases for awhile and see how you appear to the outsider (and NO this is not a comment about YOU personally, but all politically biased Christians)

This is a Christian board, thank God. Not perfect, but still a Christian board.

As for biases, I think both sides are guilty just the same. We can't discount what Gore says simply because it's Gore that's saying it. To do that would be plain dumb- mostly because he is sounding of with work that is not his own in the first place. He's simply a mouth piece. A very politically savvy mouth piece with lot's of money and free time on his hands. He'd be the perfect mouth piece for the agenda if he wasnt so clumsy in his mannerisms (and didn't have that huge mansion and jet while telling us to cut down on carbon emissions ).

But, the other side has it's people just like him, too. Our job is to weed out the fluff and get to what is real. The truth get's muddy when both sides post their heroes as a face for the information. Both sides are guilty of holding biased opinionated positions. Getting past them and really looking at this stuff is key. It's not a matter of the liberals being the concerned ones and the republicans being the evil corporate earth-killers. That's a myth that get's blown way out of proportion. Plenty of people of both political slants own and run corporations that can do better.

Somewhere deep in the middle of all of the fluff is where the answers are. The sad part is that people like Gore will overstate his cause and cost people billions. On the other hand, people who continue to pollute this planet with no regard for it's safety will also continue to do their damage, too.

t.

[Guest]

Somewhere deep in the middle of all of the fluff is where the answers are. The sad part is that people like Gore will overstate his cause and cost people billions. On the other hand, people who continue to pollute this planet with no regard for it's safety will also continue to do their damage, too.

t.

Thanks for that Ted. Well said.

[Celtic Warrior]

As I understand it THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE A CHRISTIAN BOARD, not a political sounding board for right wing (or left wing) propaganda or personal attacks. Satan is very much alive and well (and in FULL action) in the Right wing as well. If you don't believe it, stand back from your biases for awhile and see how you appear to the outsider (and NO this is not a comment about YOU personally, but all politically biased Christians)

This is a Christian board, thank God. Not perfect, but still a Christian board.

As for biases, I think both sides are guilty just the same. We can't discount what Gore says simply because it's Gore that's saying it. To do that would be plain dumb- mostly because he is sounding of with work that is not his own in the first place. He's simply a mouth piece. A very politically savvy mouth piece with lot's of money and free time on his hands. He'd be the perfect mouth piece for the agenda if he wasnt so clumsy in his mannerisms (and didn't have that huge mansion and jet while telling us to cut down on carbon emissions ).

But, the other side has it's people just like him, too. Our job is to weed out the fluff and get to what is real. The truth get's muddy when both sides post their heroes as a face for the information. Both sides are guilty of holding biased opinionated positions. Getting past them and really looking at this stuff is key. It's not a matter of the liberals being the concerned ones and the republicans being the evil corporate earth-killers. That's a myth that get's blown way out of proportion. Plenty of people of both political slants own and run corporations that can do better.

Somewhere deep in the middle of all of the fluff is where the answers are. The sad part is that people like Gore will overstate his cause and cost people billions. On the other hand, people who continue to pollute this planet with no regard for it's safety will also continue to do their damage, too.

t.

And there WE find agreement. I'm not a Gore supporter either, but what I've read points me to believe that Global Warming is a combination of Natural cycles AND MANMADE pollutants, so if we can do something to reduce the manmade element, then perhaps our children and grandchildren will not be given a nasty world. I believe, as Christians, we should be concentrating on handing our descendants a better world than the one we found, and that will never happen if we continue polarizing around political extremes and name calling. Jesus DID set the example, if only we will read, learn AND FOLLOW, and it doesn't include gossip, name calling, slander or finger pointing. If we concentrate on finger pointing, there is enough evil and wrongs on both sides to keep us pointing fingers and placing blame til way after JUDGEMENT DAY!!! And then, God will be here and the Books will be open, and we will find out that what we did (Book of Works)(what WE DO) was totally meaningless in saving our souls from destruction, while Grace (Book of Life) (making Jesus truly Lord of our Life) saved us without all the self delusions on "we're right and you're wrong"

I would love to see the issues people present here, presented WITHOUT all the "Godless Liberal, lying Gore", etc crap. No one here knows the real motives of other people and therefore NO ONE is qualified to judge whether Gore is lying, or whether some liberal is Godless. It's all biased personal viewpoints when you get to that point, and I can certainly point out lots of evils that R. Reagan, G. Ford, R. Nixon, G. Bush sr, G. Bush jr, and many other republicans did (or are doing) IF finger pointing was my agenda AND I thought it had any real value.

[ted]

t.