Mega Churches vs small gatherings

[ParanoidAndroid]

What are your thoughts on mega churches? Do you feel that it is necessary to have a church ministry catering to 3000 people? Do you think it is possible to properly care for 3000 people in one church? Do you think that the amount of offertories/tithes flowing into these massive churches is justified? Are ministers who oversee mega churches paid too much, or do they deserve the money they get. Are they entitled to wear Armani suits and Rolex watches?

Do you feel that smaller churches would be better? Intimate churches where you know everyone and grow together. Are they financially not viable, with many smaller groups having to borrow money from their Parish to survive. Are the ministers making best use of their time catering to smaller number of people?

In short - what are your thoughts on how large a church should be? Do numbers draw numbers, or are large churches too impersonal?

Personally, I have never experienced a "mega church". There are only really two such churches in Australia (that I am aware of, at least), and only one of those is anywhere near where I live (Hillsong), and I have never felt the need to go there for various reasons. By contrast, when I first started going to church, my church was often as small as 18 people (25 was the usual, with as many as 30). A few years ago, something happened and by the Grace of God, he gathered more people to Him. Now, in the space of about 5 years, our church has grown from one service with an average of 25 people, to something resembling 150 regular members (200 on the official books). While it is exciting to see God's words coming alive in so many people, in many ways I also find that I am losing out on a lot of fellowship. When there were 25 of us, we all knew each other intimately. We all encouraged each other together, all prayed together, all had a Bible study together. It was a spiritually enriching time. Now, I often feel that people are getting..... shall I say, lost in the crowd. Whereas once if a new person turned up everyone knew it. Now, a new person can enter and leave the church without notice, often only getting the chance to speak to the welcomer/usher.

In some ways the new larger congregations are good. But in other ways, it feels like our church is missing the unity of spirit that existed before. I guess there are positives and negatives to both large and small churches.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts and comments on this matter.

~ Paranoid Android

[Guest LadyC]

i can only tell you my personal preferences, and why i prefer it that way. but i can't put a number on how big a church should be, because that is God's job.

my personal preference is a small church. i do not enjoy mega-churches. to ME, the message always seems very "milky", if not outright watered down. not to mention it's hard to get "plugged in". it's hard to settle into a church family. i think many mega churches compromise on a lot of things in order to reach the masses... their worship teams often look like they're auditioning for american idol, their service is flashy and so contemporary it sometimes borders on secular. i went to one for a short while here in vegas, and i kid you not, the music being played by the worship team as you arrived and as you left was secular. it was not unusual to hear them playing music from lynard skynard or eric clapton. not that i don't like lynard and eric, but it's not appropriate in a church setting.

the advantages of a small church are enromous. the pastor is able to actually PASTOR his flock. at our church, the pastor knows each and every member by name. he is available 7 days a week (unless he's out of town) for individual counseling and/or prayer. he preaches solidly from scripture. right now the sunday morning series is at chapter 12 of romans. how many mega-churches have you heard of that will even attempt to do a series of sermons on romans?

at small churches, there is a family oriented atmosphere. most people attending know each other, and strong bonds and relationships form. there is a strong support network, emotionally and spiritually, for whatever trials you face in life. far different from the feeling of anonymity i've sensed at every mega-church i've ever attended.

small churches also have the advantage of being able to practice prayer. i've never seen a mega-church have their congregation break into small groups at each service to pray with one another. that's a weekly part of our service at my small church. it's taught me how to pray out loud for and with other people. and that's a critical skill.

at most mega churches i've visited or attended, things like communion or group prayer is done outside of the main sanctuary and either after or before a service. never during a service. most people in mega churches never attend a communion or group prayer thing. at least in my experience.

[TheoMike]

The size of a congregation is no indication that it is doing the work of the Lord or living the Gospel. I have pastored large churches in the past (although never a congregation of more than a thousand) and pastored small congregations of 30 or 40 and am currently serving in what I would consider a small to medium size church. The only good thing about the large churches I served in was the fact that we had more people to draw from for outreach programs and general ministry to the community. In a small church that is always a challenge.

Some people love to attend the big church because they sort of get lost. They can attend almost anonymously. But in a small church everybody gets noticed when they are there and when they miss a service. In a large church you stand a good chance of never being asked to do anything, which appeals to some, whereas in a small church you have a very good chance of being tapped to pick up the offering, teach Sunday school or whatever. Large churches usually attract "the talent" and the money, so you'll probably have multiple worship leaders and musicians, conversely, in my present church, for example, if it wasn't for my wife, we'd have no musical talent at all. Of course, when I was involved in the big churches, I was paid a lot more, but I made a conscious decision to never drive a car or wear a suit that the average member of my congregation couldn't afford. That was a personal choice on my part, and I certainly don't hold it against any pastor who drives a Beemer to church.

From the point of view of a pastor, there is virtually no difference, in my mind, between the mega church and the smaller churches. I spend the same amount of time on sermon prep, I have same visitation schedule, my pastoral routines are pretty much the same. When I stand behind a pulpit in a church, big or small, I don't pay particular attention to the number of people in the pews, because when I preach, I preach to one Person, because I know He is present no matter who else is.

I have seen some megachurches that are outstanding examples of what the church should be, and have seen some small churches that do absolutely nothing for the kingdom of God whatsoever. And the opposite is also true. So I would say that the size of the congregation means next to nothing in terms of a church's effectiveness for Christ, and I don't think God has "perfect" number in mind for the prefect sized congregation.

[Christ_Sheep]

My personal opinion is that mega churches are a VERY good thing, why? Because I think it can be a very useful and, it can be a neccessary sign to unbelievers, that yes there is prosperity in the church. I would be extremely ignorant to say that every pastor of every huge congregation is living what they're preaching or that they're living with ingretiy. But you cannot let your views be swayed by a few bad apples . Law of averages says everything isn't going to always work out just as you imagined it would, or even as it should. However, I as a (WOF) follower, and that is just me I am not trying to influence or persuade anyone to believe exactly what I believe (but me mentioning that is important to the discussion). I feel that many people view the church from a very archaic and traditionilst perspective meaning that in order to be somehow closer to god, a person must appear to be humble and lack financial prosperity. I feel at times there is this nagging buzz that says if a church is well known and on television, then, by default, there's got to be something crooked and not right about the church. I also feel that a mega church can wake some fellow Christian's up to the notion that, hey, we can have something that stands the test of time, is large and stretched our faith a little bit ... to see it come to fruition. Not saying anyone whom prefers smaller churches has a limited mindset, least not anyone on this board, but many people do. When god said to walk by faith and not by sight that is exactly what he meant. When he said the just shall live by faith ... that is what he meant. And faith is more than just saying, "I believe in Christ" it is acting on what you profess you believe. The action is much more important than the thought or the "belief". Not that what the lord has in his hand is more important than, Christ himself, but when he tells me in the scriptures that he came so that we may have life and it more abundantly, financial prosperity and being a person whom is well known, but also holy, I would think is apart of that package. The world and all it's influences have taken up too much of god's air time, I would love to see many more churches grow exponentially, such as Joel Osteen's church in the Compaq Center. I think it is time that we show others and ourselves that we don't have to "get ours in the sweet bye and bye", but that we can enjoy life now, with it's many perks because god promised us just that. I am of the mindset that there in many cases are too many quarrels among Christians about whom is more holy or who knows more about what Jesus actually meant in his scriptures that we are wasting time, it's time to mature, unite and set aside petty differences. It's time to let the world know, and if a mega church is the hook (before letting them read the scriptures themselves) then so be it.

There are many whom use the scriptures to tailor their own beliefs. Having a mega church is not wrong, IMO. Is it a calling on every aspiring preacher or minister? Of course not, because in some ways it is a business. Book keeping and accounting for every dollar and cent that floods into the church via donation, tithe or offering is a job that requires a very business oriented mindset, not to mention dependability and honor.

Personally, I'd prefer to be involved with a smaller church just because you can get to know everyone on a closer basis and, so on those grounds, I do feel feel smaller churches have their places. At smaller churches like Lady C said, you do get a more, "family" oriented vibe seeping out; than you would if the church you went to housed 3,000 parishioner's.

Edited October 31, 2007 by Christ_Sheep

[Guest LadyC]

mike, i have a couple of comments and questions for you.

i agree with what you said, for the most part. the anonymity thing, the comfort zone of not being asked to do anything. now here's my question pertaining to that.... how does a person grow spiritually in that sort of environment? if they're never asked to serve in a way that may make them nervous?

i kinda think that mega-churches are great seed planters... but not very good cultivators or harvesters. JMO.

ok, one more thing... you said from a pastor's perspective, there's not a difference. i'd like to ask you to dig a little deeper into that one... true, the same amount of dedication to sermon preparation and delivery is given, etc., but since you've pastored large and small churches, let me ask you to compare the ease and ability of how you were able to provide individual care, shepherding, and pastoral counsel to the members of those churches...

when pastor dean first came to grapevine he didn't really want to pastor the church his father had formerly resided over. but when his dad died, he felt that God was pushing him to make himself available to grapevine, and he did so reluctantly. the church at that time had three sunday services, with about 500 attendees per service. he said God had asked him to give it one year, and he did. almost exactly one year later, the building burned down. the congregation scattered across the valley. what was left was a very small congregation. that was ten years ago.

if you ask him if he ever wants grapevine to be that big again, he'll tell you that he would like to see the church grow, but that he personally likes the advantages he has with having a small congregation. i don't know what our membership is, but i'd guess at the outside, maybe a hundred max regularly attend... and that's combining both services. having pastored this church in its former days of "glory" (i use that term loosely) AND as it currently stands, he admits to preferring it this way because he really does get to know each person, and their children, in a way that he never could when the church was big. he knows each person's struggle with sin, with addiction, with grief, and he knows each person's spiritual growth, their joys, their celebrations... and he's able to lift them all up in prayer on a daily basis.

so, could you share a comparison with us of your experiences in that sense?

[Redefine_Me]

This is an interesting topic for me, because I have avoided large churches most of my life. I was raised in a very small church of about 50 members, and my grandparents went to a little mountain church with about 20 members. Most of my adult married life, I attended a church of about 250 members. By the way, when I say "members" I mean people that actually show up week after week.

In February of this year, I started attending a church with a weekly attendance of about 2500. My reasons for choosing that church are found floating somewhere in the "Testimonies" thread, but basically I believe God 100% told me to. His voice in my head, and I argued with him for a week before attending. I wanted to hide in the masses when I first went, and you can definately do that in a large church. I wanted to be alone with God - funny to way I was alone with him surrounded by a thousand people, but I was. And He spoke to me like never before (because I took the time to listen) Anyway.... after a couple of months of staying hidden, I started getting connected. I joined a womens study class that was specifically designed for women who are in similar situations to mine. I joined the praise team (LadyC - I am about the most opposite of American Idol as you can imagine ) and I enrolled in a Divorce Care weekly group. My pre-teen and teenage daughters are connected like neve before. The pastor speaks from the Bible. And we just finished months of going through Corintheans - a chapter a week. We do break into small groups and pray. We do have communion in the "big" service (my term lol). More times than not, though, we will have communion on Wednesday night. Sometimes the ladies separate from the men for communion, and sometimes we have family communion, where families all separate and take communion together with our children that we (the parents) feel are of age. I don't know how they manage to act like a small church in such a large crowd, but they do. It is the most spirit filled church I have ever experienced. The pastor preaches the Word of God - even if it makes people squirm in their comfy padded chairs. God is doing amazing things through him. The pastor does know me, and even my daughters. We email just about every week about something from his sermon or the Word. I could talk to him before or after service, but usually leave that for visitors or people who are wanting to be baptised, etc.

What I do NOT like, in general, about large churches - including the one I attend: I had to come out and get connected. It is very easy to go week after week and not be noticed or not find a place to fit in. The burden was definately on me to get connected with the groups and classes that I needed. Now, if I had asked someone, they would have helped me find what I was looking for in an instant - but the onus was still on me to ask. That worked for me at the time of my spiritual journey, but it would not work for all. Yes, they have a coffee house smack dab in the middle of everything. I still don't get that! But I do see the fellowship around it and there are small study groups going on in there all the time - people pouring over the Bible and discussing God's word. But that still throws me. Oh - ok, and the golf carts in the parking lot when it is raining or cold - picking people up in the parking lot bringing people to the building. That CRACKS me UP!

How i think it has an advantage over small churches - I think a larger church has more of an opportunity to minister to individual groups, because it has more people who would "fit" into those groups - if that makes sense. You can have groups of 20 or 30 people that are blended families, or are recovering from major events in their lives, and you can have a strong youth ministry and do MUCH community outreach. Smaller churches, in my experience, can actually be more stand-of-ish and harder for new members to fit in. Just my experience.

I think all of the points raised about disadvantages of mega churches are valid. I think the key is the church and leaders itself. The one thing I learned is to not judge a mega church just because it is large. You have to visit, just like you would any sized church.

[Redefine_Me]

mike, i have a couple of comments and questions for you.

i agree with what you said, for the most part. the anonymity thing, the comfort zone of not being asked to do anything. now here's my question pertaining to that.... how does a person grow spiritually in that sort of environment? if they're never asked to serve in a way that may make them nervous?

i kinda think that mega-churches are great seed planters... but not very good cultivators or harvesters. JMO.

whew! Y'all snuck in with more posts while I was typing my first one LOL.

We are expected to serve in our large church. And the wonderful thing is that there are so many more areas I can serve in. I really feel my spiritual gifts are used. Also, the teens are expected to serve as a part of the teen ministry. My daughter serves weekly in childcare. I serve in the worship arts ministry, and am co-leader of my womens small group. I didn't volunteer to do that, but was asked to serve. And with the larger membership, there are always needs - more than in a small church. I am forever getting outsized clothes to someone in the church who has a need, or taking meals to someone who is sick or has had surgery.

[backontrack]

What are your thoughts on mega churches? Do you feel that it is necessary to have a church ministry catering to 3000 people? Do you think it is possible to properly care for 3000 people in one church? Do you think that the amount of offertories/tithes flowing into these massive churches is justified? Are ministers who oversee mega churches paid too much, or do they deserve the money they get. Are they entitled to wear Armani suits and Rolex watches?

Do you feel that smaller churches would be better? Intimate churches where you know everyone and grow together. Are they financially not viable, with many smaller groups having to borrow money from their Parish to survive. Are the ministers making best use of their time catering to smaller number of people?

In short - what are your thoughts on how large a church should be? Do numbers draw numbers, or are large churches too impersonal?

Personally, I have never experienced a "mega church". There are only really two such churches in Australia (that I am aware of, at least), and only one of those is anywhere near where I live (Hillsong), and I have never felt the need to go there for various reasons. By contrast, when I first started going to church, my church was often as small as 18 people (25 was the usual, with as many as 30). A few years ago, something happened and by the Grace of God, he gathered more people to Him. Now, in the space of about 5 years, our church has grown from one service with an average of 25 people, to something resembling 150 regular members (200 on the official books). While it is exciting to see God's words coming alive in so many people, in many ways I also find that I am losing out on a lot of fellowship. When there were 25 of us, we all knew each other intimately. We all encouraged each other together, all prayed together, all had a Bible study together. It was a spiritually enriching time. Now, I often feel that people are getting..... shall I say, lost in the crowd. Whereas once if a new person turned up everyone knew it. Now, a new person can enter and leave the church without notice, often only getting the chance to speak to the welcomer/usher.

In some ways the new larger congregations are good. But in other ways, it feels like our church is missing the unity of spirit that existed before. I guess there are positives and negatives to both large and small churches.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts and comments on this matter.

~ Paranoid Android

they financially not viable, with many smaller groups having to borrow money from their Parish to survive.

This is sad that people have to borrow from the parish? Someone needs to pray for these churches! Any church is good so long as they are in Gods will! Big or small! Feed the poor, take care of the widows, feed my sheep, bring the lost in and so forth!

[Guest LadyC]

redefine me, your post is the exact reason why i could only give preferences and never try to put a number on how big is too big

God always knows what He's doing, and He gathers His people together into whatever environment He feels is best for them.

[EricH]

What are your thoughts on mega churches? Do you feel that it is necessary to have a church ministry catering to 3000 people? Do you think it is possible to properly care for 3000 people in one church? Do you think that the amount of offertories/tithes flowing into these massive churches is justified? Are ministers who oversee mega churches paid too much, or do they deserve the money they get. Are they entitled to wear Armani suits and Rolex watches?

Do you feel that smaller churches would be better? Intimate churches where you know everyone and grow together. Are they financially not viable, with many smaller groups having to borrow money from their Parish to survive. Are the ministers making best use of their time catering to smaller number of people?

In short - what are your thoughts on how large a church should be? Do numbers draw numbers, or are large churches too impersonal?

Personally, I have never experienced a "mega church". There are only really two such churches in Australia (that I am aware of, at least), and only one of those is anywhere near where I live (Hillsong), and I have never felt the need to go there for various reasons. By contrast, when I first started going to church, my church was often as small as 18 people (25 was the usual, with as many as 30). A few years ago, something happened and by the Grace of God, he gathered more people to Him. Now, in the space of about 5 years, our church has grown from one service with an average of 25 people, to something resembling 150 regular members (200 on the official books). While it is exciting to see God's words coming alive in so many people, in many ways I also find that I am losing out on a lot of fellowship. When there were 25 of us, we all knew each other intimately. We all encouraged each other together, all prayed together, all had a Bible study together. It was a spiritually enriching time. Now, I often feel that people are getting..... shall I say, lost in the crowd. Whereas once if a new person turned up everyone knew it. Now, a new person can enter and leave the church without notice, often only getting the chance to speak to the welcomer/usher.

In some ways the new larger congregations are good. But in other ways, it feels like our church is missing the unity of spirit that existed before. I guess there are positives and negatives to both large and small churches.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts and comments on this matter.

~ Paranoid Android

I pastor at a mega-church. it is not a matter of either / or. In our particular church we stress small group involvement. Most of the discipling and care happens there. Our size enables us to reach out into the community in some pretty powerful ways and to offer ministries that might not be available otherwise