Trinity or Oneness?

[damo1]

Well, you two seem to have totally destroyed this thread with your personal bickering......... good work.....

Good greif....

damo1 to other one

how is this so since you wil not state a name hear and is this not a christian forum it seems to me only one group has a say hear on this subject while the other group has to question what has been said to them and what they read from gods word

i could have backed of very simple yet this is on a forum and i feel people are with in their rights or i can say this why has this topic not been clossed like i have seen other topics on worthy close

why bring up a topic like this trinity or oneness and then have every one come against each other to the point wear one gets so confused

if you need anything to say then please pm as to be honest i am geting sick of this subject it was going good at one point and i was reading what has been said in this topic

is it going to get to wear only one group has a say on this who is right who is wrong hear we al pray to the one god dont we we al read from the same bible dont we and we are all going to face him on judgment day

why set up a topic like this to wear only one group has a say i am sorry my friend if you feel this way i was keeping my fingers crossed that a mod wil close this topic this has been my prayer since last week

for this subject to shut down all together to wear no one is being bashed over the head

god bless from damo

[damo1]

damo1

i feel that this is right to be said hear since this is on trinity and oneness

know hear is my twister that should make everyone think if we all feel that we can come against each other its as if many have forgotten what Christ did for us on the cross

many Christians have a discipleship of the cross but lack personal experience of the holy spirit

others respond to gods empowering presence but ignore Christs call to take up their cross daily one group stresses holiness while the other group stresses healing

this is how this topic has been ever since its been set up one group stresses trinity while the other group stresses oneness

Jesus lived a dynamic life many had heard this man speak and many lives wear transformed even to this day many are hearing this man and many lives have been transformed to the point wear many never stay the same in his suffering on the cross for the whole world we all have this freedom other wise if Jesus did not take the path his father had him on not one of us would be hear

we would not even know about heaven or hell we would just simply live out life not know that while living out life the best we can judgment is going to come upon this world and god is going to judge each of us not one of us Will avoid this or Will be able to escape this

though when it comes to a Christian forum boy do we like to act the goat and bash each other over the head when it comes to trinity or oneness and even walking in unity with each other its as if we are tools for Satan when it comes to subjects like this to wear people can not even communicate to one another in a decent manner

no wonder gods kingdom is split on issues like this hear we have one group trinity saying we know it all while we have this group oneness saying we have the answers yet do we stop to hear each other out do we pick up our cross and stay on the path he has us on or do we allow the enemy to come in like a flood to wear we allow him to destroy us to the point wear we show the whole wide world how foolish and how stupid gods children are

Jesus had to experience the cross in order to pour out the gift of the spirit from heaven

yet hear we are like those who moses lead out of Egypt arguing among our selves just like the Israelites did when moses led gods chosen people threw the desert all they did was complain when miracle after miracle happened right in front of their eyes god even gave them light threw the night not one person starved god told moses to point his staff and the sea gave way for them to cross

are we with in our rights to carry on like this to wear we just pull each other down because honestly this topic has had a sore spot with me and i am sure with any one with in the world who logs into worthy and sees this and begins to read what is being said on trinity and oneness

if my question can not be answered it Will show me this we do not relay know what Christ did for us on the cross or can we honestly know how much god loved his own son to allow his own son to die like this god loved Jesus so much that he had to pull back and allow history to take its path as if history did not take its path and god acted and ordered his angels to shield Jesus and protect him not one person would be hear today

i would not be sharing to you what Christ did for me and you would not be sharing hear on this Christian forum

how about we approach this topic in a different way and not have it pulled one way or have it to wear we are bashing each other over the head

god bless from damo

[Kansasdad]

Well, you two seem to have totally destroyed this thread with your personal bickering......... good work.....

Good greif....

I agree,I would like nothing better than to debate the subject of trinity vs oneness with out the extra caricular stuff.Just to get back on subject I will post a paper I wrote on my personal opinion on this debate.It is titled ''The Doctrine of Oneness''

THE DOCTRINE OF ONENESS: God is one and has always been one. Jesus is the man God became. Jesus did not exist before incarnation as God the Son. In His pre-incarnate state, He existed as the Father, God Himself. Now the two of them are in heaven together, God the Father and the man he became, the Son of God, Jesus Christ. The problem is that when I say the Father became a man people think it means I believe he stopped being an eternal spirit after incarnation and that heaven was empty. This is not what I believe.God the Father continued to exist as a transendant, unlimited spirit, while also becomming a man. The Father did not become confined to a human existance. It is not as though the omnipresent spirit of God transformed himself into a man, to the exclusion of his existance as the Holy spirit.

When God assumed a human existance with a complete human mind, psyche, will, and emotion etc. He was distinct from the Father while he continued to exist as the Father in heaven. As a genuine human being, Jesus was and is distinct from the Father. This is because of HIs humanity not because he is the second person of the Trinity. While I confess that the deity of the Son did pre-exist incarnation, I do not see that deity as the second person of the Trinity, known as " God the Son ", and seperate from the Father or Holy Spirit, but rather as the uni-personal God of the old testament. Yaweh, the Father, the Great I Am.

Concerning the Holy Spirit, I believe He is the Spirit of God the Father and not a seperate person of the Trinity, the third person known as " God the Holy Spirit. " The Holy Spirit is the spirit of God, He is the spirit of the Father, He is the spirit of Christ. God is a spirit, the Holy Spirit. There is one God not three, nor are there three persons that create one God. He is one uni-personal God that He himself became flesh. There is no such person as God the son nor God the Holy Spirit but God the Father, the son of God and the spirit of God.

Did you know that this same debate raged in the very first century. Did you also know that the very first Christians that sat at the feet of the Apostles answer this debate?

God Bless,

K.D.

[sososo]

Greetin's

I participated in a similar 'Trinty' debate on another forum which [surprise] became the longest thread ever on that forum.

I agree with most of what onwingsaseagles has posted. It's a mystery [AnotherTraveler] agreed but, there are deeper aspects that one day no doubt will be revealed.

There are no limits with or in God and I believe an aspect of this is in understanding He is not limited to a time space continuum as we are. I'm not talking science fiction here. Jesus/I AM is written of in the tense of past, present and future in scripture, sometimes within the same passage/verse.

Some thoughts,

Edited November 13, 2007 by sososo

[PreciousRubi]

I am interested to know how these scriptures are viewed.... I see a distinct Father and Son or am I misunderstanding them.

No you do not misunderstand them,the Son is distinct from the Father in the fact that the Son is a man.The main point is there was not a ''God the Son'' in heaven that became a man but God himself became a man.

ok...So now we have the Father Yahweh on the throne in Heaven and His Son Yeshua at His right hand.

Is Yeshua God?

I'm genuinely trying to understand....and thanks for your post on the Doctrine of Oneness.

I also wondered if you or anyone has any idea where the term "Lord" Greek: kurios has it's origins in relation to the New Covenant...

As we know 'Lord' is translated from the Hebrew Adonai, which scribes used to replace the tetragrammaton YHWH.

1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Seems Paul here reiterates the Shema:

Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: YHWH our God, YHWH is one.

Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

[damo1]

I am interested to know how these scriptures are viewed.... I see a distinct Father and Son or am I misunderstanding them.

No you do not misunderstand them,the Son is distinct from the Father in the fact that the Son is a man.The main point is there was not a ''God the Son'' in heaven that became a man but God himself became a man.

ok...So now we have the Father Yahweh on the throne in Heaven and His Son Yeshua at His right hand.

Is Yeshua God?

I'm genuinely trying to understand....and thanks for your post on the Doctrine of Oneness.

I also wondered if you or anyone has any idea where the term "Lord" Greek: kurios has it's origins in relation to the New Covenant...

As we know 'Lord' is translated from the Hebrew Adonai, which scribes used to replace the tetragrammaton YHWH.

1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Seems Paul here reiterates the Shema:

Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: YHWH our God, YHWH is one.

Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

damo1 to precious Rubi monday 13 of nov time 2.12pm

hgh this is damien al i can give you is from my very old bible that i do not use much this is from the holy scriptures a new transaltion from the origonal languages

most cathlics have this book i only just dug this up from its box and have been going over some things comparing this with the new international version i have and also the new spirit filled bible

the names of god have been preserved as far as possible according to the origonal either in the tex or by notes and are distinguished as folows

Elohim is god

Eloah is god

El is god

now to your question you asked

in the authorised version god is used as wel as lord for jehova and the form lord represents both jehova and jah this inconviniance is obiviated by the use of he hebrew words anglicisied that is jehova and jah where they respectivly occur and by rendering adonia

so i have given you this from my very old bible that i do not use very much yet it has some use full information for me and i am glad it was looked after for me

so i hope this helps you

from damo

[mrs]

THE DOCTRINE OF ONENESS: God is one and has always been one. Jesus is the man God became. Jesus did not exist before incarnation as God the Son. In His pre-incarnate state, He existed as the Father, God Himself. Now the two of them are in heaven together, God the Father and the man he became, the Son of God, Jesus Christ. The problem is that when I say the Father became a man people think it means I believe he stopped being an eternal spirit after incarnation and that heaven was empty. This is not what I believe.God the Father continued to exist as a transendant, unlimited spirit, while also becomming a man. The Father did not become confined to a human existance. It is not as though the omnipresent spirit of God transformed himself into a man, to the exclusion of his existance as the Holy spirit.

When God assumed a human existance with a complete human mind, psyche, will, and emotion etc. He was distinct from the Father while he continued to exist as the Father in heaven. As a genuine human being, Jesus was and is distinct from the Father. This is because of HIs humanity not because he is the second person of the Trinity. While I confess that the deity of the Son did pre-exist incarnation, I do not see that deity as the second person of the Trinity, known as " God the Son ", and seperate from the Father or Holy Spirit, but rather as the uni-personal God of the old testament. Yaweh, the Father, the Great I Am.

Concerning the Holy Spirit, I believe He is the Spirit of God the Father and not a seperate person of the Trinity, the third person known as " God the Holy Spirit. " The Holy Spirit is the spirit of God, He is the spirit of the Father, He is the spirit of Christ. God is a spirit, the Holy Spirit. There is one God not three, nor are there three persons that create one God. He is one uni-personal God that He himself became flesh. There is no such person as God the son nor God the Holy Spirit but God the Father, the son of God and the spirit of God.

blasphemy Why is this being allowed to be taught here? God is a Trinity Who has always existed as 3 Persons in 1 in perfect unity. To teach anything otherwise is heresy.

[damo1]

THE DOCTRINE OF ONENESS: God is one and has always been one. Jesus is the man God became. Jesus did not exist before incarnation as God the Son. In His pre-incarnate state, He existed as the Father, God Himself. Now the two of them are in heaven together, God the Father and the man he became, the Son of God, Jesus Christ. The problem is that when I say the Father became a man people think it means I believe he stopped being an eternal spirit after incarnation and that heaven was empty. This is not what I believe.God the Father continued to exist as a transendant, unlimited spirit, while also becomming a man. The Father did not become confined to a human existance. It is not as though the omnipresent spirit of God transformed himself into a man, to the exclusion of his existance as the Holy spirit.

When God assumed a human existance with a complete human mind, psyche, will, and emotion etc. He was distinct from the Father while he continued to exist as the Father in heaven. As a genuine human being, Jesus was and is distinct from the Father. This is because of HIs humanity not because he is the second person of the Trinity. While I confess that the deity of the Son did pre-exist incarnation, I do not see that deity as the second person of the Trinity, known as " God the Son ", and seperate from the Father or Holy Spirit, but rather as the uni-personal God of the old testament. Yaweh, the Father, the Great I Am.

Concerning the Holy Spirit, I believe He is the Spirit of God the Father and not a seperate person of the Trinity, the third person known as " God the Holy Spirit. " The Holy Spirit is the spirit of God, He is the spirit of the Father, He is the spirit of Christ. God is a spirit, the Holy Spirit. There is one God not three, nor are there three persons that create one God. He is one uni-personal God that He himself became flesh. There is no such person as God the son nor God the Holy Spirit but God the Father, the son of God and the spirit of God.

blasphemy Why is this being allowed to be taught here? God is a Trinity Who has always existed as 3 Persons in 1 in perfect unity. To teach anything otherwise is heresy.

damo1

i am with you smiles yet i have been told to not have a say on this subject due to one person being up set with me i have just been going over this thread and i wish every one the best on this subject and i hope every one gets a chance to have a say but when i read that last statment left it just hurt my spirit to hear this i wil though come back to this topic yet i wil keep my views on trinity and oneness to my self and let jesus sort this out when judgment day comes i also say this is blasphmey and harasey at its best

but i am humen i wish everyone the best on this topic

god bless from your brother in the lord damo

[AnotherTraveler]

THE DOCTRINE OF ONENESS: God is one and has always been one. Jesus is the man God became. Jesus did not exist before incarnation as God the Son. In His pre-incarnate state, He existed as the Father, God Himself. Now the two of them are in heaven together, God the Father and the man he became, the Son of God, Jesus Christ. The problem is that when I say the Father became a man people think it means I believe he stopped being an eternal spirit after incarnation and that heaven was empty. This is not what I believe.God the Father continued to exist as a transendant, unlimited spirit, while also becomming a man. The Father did not become confined to a human existance. It is not as though the omnipresent spirit of God transformed himself into a man, to the exclusion of his existance as the Holy spirit.

When God assumed a human existance with a complete human mind, psyche, will, and emotion etc. He was distinct from the Father while he continued to exist as the Father in heaven. As a genuine human being, Jesus was and is distinct from the Father. This is because of HIs humanity not because he is the second person of the Trinity. While I confess that the deity of the Son did pre-exist incarnation, I do not see that deity as the second person of the Trinity, known as " God the Son ", and seperate from the Father or Holy Spirit, but rather as the uni-personal God of the old testament. Yaweh, the Father, the Great I Am.

Concerning the Holy Spirit, I believe He is the Spirit of God the Father and not a seperate person of the Trinity, the third person known as " God the Holy Spirit. " The Holy Spirit is the spirit of God, He is the spirit of the Father, He is the spirit of Christ. God is a spirit, the Holy Spirit. There is one God not three, nor are there three persons that create one God. He is one uni-personal God that He himself became flesh. There is no such person as God the son nor God the Holy Spirit but God the Father, the son of God and the spirit of God.

onwingsaseagles,

Once again, your post is pretty well reasoned and well thought out, however, once again, the doctrine of Oneness, no matter how well explained, and the doctrine of Trinity, both have competing errors in this manner, both are the reasonings of men BASED on the scripture, they are not scripture in and of themselves.

But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Gal 3:22 (KJV)

There are places in the scriptures where the scripture makes conclusions.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

2 Tim 3:16-17 (KJV)

I would like to focus on the two words here that say "throughly furnished", this indicates that the scripture does not require additional help dealing with doctrine.

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

2 Peter 1:20 (KJV)

My interpretation, yours, or theirs are equally not valid to establish ANY doctrine. If we allow private interpretation, soon there comes a flood of doctrines that are what "they said God said", and all that results is division and endless argument. Look at this thread, have the two sides grown closer having related what they think regarding the nature of the invisible God?

Don't misunderstand me, it's ok to favor one opinion over another opinion, as Paul also allowed.

Romans 14:1-10 (KJV)

Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. 2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. 3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. 4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. 7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. 8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. 9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. 10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? But why dost thou judge thy brother?

This is my opinion. There will be in heaven many from both sides of this opinion. I hold them as my brethren, regardless of opinion, and I recommend that we not JUDGE one another over this, as it is, AT BEST, a matter of opinion.

blasphemy Why is this being allowed to be taught here? God is a Trinity Who has always existed as 3 Persons in 1 in perfect unity. To teach anything otherwise is heresy.

What a tragic response to an open discussion on this subject.

[mrs]

Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? But why dost thou judge thy brother?

This is my opinion. There will be in heaven many from both sides of this opinion. I hold them as my brethren, regardless of opinion, and I recommend that we not JUDGE one another over this, as it is, AT BEST, a matter of opinion.

blasphemy Why is this being allowed to be taught here? God is a Trinity Who has always existed as 3 Persons in 1 in perfect unity. To teach anything otherwise is heresy.

What a tragic response to an open discussion on this subject.

A person's beliefs about Who God is - if He is a Trinity or Oneness - are NOT mere opinion at all! They are the foundation of their belief system and affect everything they do in their Christian walk. Traveller, I understand you are trying to be open and fair, but the Bible is clear on Who God is. Anyone who teaches or preaches anything else is false and is to be corrected, warned and not heeded. I will judge another over this as in calling them wrong, simply because they ARE wrong according to the Bible and their errors must NOT be allowed to be proclaimed as true.

In the past days of the church, when someone came along preaching something contrary to what the church had been teaching from the Bible for generations, their teaching would be heard and held up to the Word. When it was shown to be false it was soundly rejected and labeled heresy, as destructive to the faith and the Gospel.

The problem with the church nowadays is it is too willing to accept anything and everything in the name of "unity" "don't judge another" and " everyone has different beliefs".

The heresy that was presented in this thread was confronted, refuted, and shown to be false. Therefore there is no need to have an "open discussion" any further.