Days of Noah/sons of God

[other one]

Ron, I have been involved in intercessory prayer and personal one on one fights with demonic powers. What is it that you have in mind?

[Guest shiloh357]

This explanation makes the most sense to me...

Genesis 6 verses 1 and 2 state:

"Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose."

Commentary: We find there that the "sons of God" took wives from the "daughters of men." The important question here is, who are the "sons of God?" Are they demons, fallen angels taking the form of flesh? Would God call evil, fallen spirits "sons of God?" Notice also that these sons of God "chose" for "themselves" certain "daughters of men."

Verse 3,

"Then the Lord said, 'My spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty (120) years.' "

Commentary: We see here that because the "sons of God" took for themselves the "daughters of men" God limited man's days to 120 years and said "My spirit shall not strive with man forever." Men had lived to be much older prior to this judgment, notice also, the judgment had to do with God's spirit abiding in man. In the previous chapter we find that Methuselah lived to be 969 years old. We must ask the question, "if the sons of God were fallen angels, why was the judgment against "man?"

Romans 8 tells us twice that only those who possess the indwelling of the holy spirit are the "sons of God." Although the holy spirit was poured out on Pentecost in 31 A.D. , there have always been faithful men and women whom God had given His spirit to.

In Psalm 51 we find King David praying that God would not take His holy spirit from him. Jesus called Abel righteous ( Matthew 23:35). In Genesis 5 we find that Enoch "walked with God" and God took him. Notice also the time line of the great cloud of witnesses so eloquently spoken of in Hebrews 11, almost all lived prior to the coming of Christ.

Jesus told His disciples "Blessed are those who have not seen yet have believed." I believe He was referring to the faithful who lived before He came as the Savior. These Faithful servants could not look back to Calvary as we can, but had to look forward to the cross and believe that God would someday redeem them from their sins.

Let us consider for a moment that the "sons of God" in Genesis 6:2 were faithful men whom God had given the holy spirit to. Men who were not only born of men but born again of God,- marrying worldly women born only of men. Now let's see how the passage begins to shape up.

The Hebrew word translated as "strive" here literally means "rule in." Some ancient versions read "abide in" or "in his going astray he is flesh." The word "nevertheless" in verse 3 can mean "therefore" in Hebrew as well.

Putting this together let me paraphrase,- When the faithful sons of God,- righteous men possessing the holy spirit, saw that the women of the world were beautiful, they lusted after them, taking them as their wives, thus becoming "unequally yoked" together with unbelievers. (1 Corinthians 7)

They "chose" for "themselves" rather than letting God provide for them. In this they were quenching the spirit within them, which is why God said "My spirit shall not "strive", "rule in" or "abide in" man forever, for "in his going astray he is flesh," therefore I will limit his years on earth to 120. Notice that God is saying that His spirit could not stay in those who lusted after the flesh. This means that there were men who had the holy spirit abiding in them but fell away when they set their eyes and hearts on the flesh, in this case, women who were not born of the spirit.

Verse 4 - 6,

"The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, . . ., when the sons of God came into the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart."

Commentary: "Nephilim" here is certainly the "mighty men,"- "men of renown." The Nephilim were a result of the unholy union of the sons of God with the daughters of men. Nephilim is taken from "Napal" meaning "to fall." But who are these who fell? Was it angels who had become demons at Lucifer's rebellion, or was it faithful men who fell away from God by going after fleshly desires?

Notice that God said that He "saw that the wickedness of man was great." That "every intent" of man's heart was evil. And that God was even sorry that He had made man.

Again, it is man whom God holds to blame. And it was to men that God's judgment was pronounced against. The same men who were once called the "sons of God."

http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/nephilim.html

That also makes the most sense to me as well.

[Guest Greg Davies]

Putting this together let me paraphrase,- When the faithful sons of God,- righteous men possessing the holy spirit, saw that the women of the world were beautiful, they lusted after them, taking them as their wives, thus becoming "unequally yoked" together with unbelievers. (1 Corinthians 7)

They "chose" for "themselves" rather than letting God provide for them. In this they were quenching the spirit within them, which is why God said "My spirit shall not "strive", "rule in" or "abide in" man forever, for "in his going astray he is flesh," therefore I will limit his years on earth to 120. Notice that God is saying that His spirit could not stay in those who lusted after the flesh. This means that there were men who had the holy spirit abiding in them but fell away when they set their eyes and hearts on the flesh, in this case, women who were not born of the spirit.

Kari19,

Outstanding post and well reasoned!

Let me quible on the above excerpt. You quoted earlier Psalm 51 where David ask the Lord not to take His Holy Spirit from him. Jesus said in John 14:17 that the Holy Spirit is with you (the disciples at that time) and shall be in you. I believe it would be more accurate to say that the Holy Spirit was with but not in David and the "sons of God" we are talking about.

In Psalm 51, David also asks God to renew a "right" (KJV) spirit within him. This word translated "right" is kun. It is also translated in Prov. 14:18 as "perfect". In this Psalm, David is describing the unregenerated condition of man (verse 5) and is telling God that he needs to be "born again" (verse 10). Notice he is asking God to cleanse him and forgive him in a way that only the blood of Jesus could do. When Jesus tells Nicodemas that he needed to be "born again", he said that which is born Spirit is spirit (salvation). I believe being born of the water is water baptism which completes the "born again" experience with circumcision of the heart or the "clean" heart David was asking for.

Back to my initial point. Before we can be filled with the Holy Spirit, we need to have the "new spirit" which comes at salvation. So the "sons of God" we are discussing were, as you have so aptly put, were men who had the Holy Spirit with them because they were of the godly line, but could not have been filled with the Holy Spirit because their spirits were unregenerated as decendents of Adam.

I hope this all makes sense. There is a lot more detail I could go into concerning the "new spirit" prophecied in Ez. 36:26, refered to by Jesus in John 3:6, and the process described in Titus 3:5, but I'll leave it there unless there is more interest.

Greg.

[ajesuschrist_mathetes]

Ron, I have been involved in intercessory prayer and personal one on one fights with demonic powers. What is it that you have in mind?

Dear Sam:

Way back when {2004 here on worthy}-remember your post reply re Malachi Martin? Factor that in, the latest book this year re Vatican exorcists. and Scott Peck's "Glimpses of the Devil", Allen's "Possessed", others. Also that I tried a year or so ago to share some of my 1991-1992 18 mo full-time "Good vs Evil" experience with a very senior Christian face to face. Senior?-in addition to what he shared, he shared being held down by 3 demons in the past. What I wanted to share was blocked-I believe by The Holy Spirit- because it was too much to bear for him. I HAD to consider "things" from the point of view of Satan/devil for a significant amount of time. You know the Scriptures, you know how this all ends. Do you want to dwell on any of that? I had to, and not in a calm, quiet intellectual way like this chain is.

When I died in 1992 [senior priest asked me re that:"what do you mean? did your heart stop,...? I replied "Much more than that". He understood and answered "oh", then shared something] asked God via 1 John 4:2 whether I should say anything about that or keep that hidden, like much of my life still is. He replied and I quote: "Tell them you've been to hell and back".

Know another very senior believer who shared this though-walking up {down?-forget what they said} a flight of stairs and having a "kosmokrator" {ruler of the darkness of this world-Ephesians 6:12} walk through them then disappear.

The devil used to be my father {John 8:44} before I was supernaturally born again at age 36 in late 1980. Did not know any of that then-best as I can tell you, I had not even heard of Jesus Christ. Impossible to believe, right? To this day try to understand the barrier between "me" at 36 before and after being born-again and trying to converse with "me". The old "me" had a black talent-verbally, could cut you 2 ways at once:charming, then viperous. Anyway.

Probably more than enough-many things cannot even be shared face to face, much less on a message board. Re your question-please consider this chain carefully, word by word, then pray for wisdom {James 1:5}.

...

Jhn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Jhn 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Jhn 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

Jhn 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

Jhn 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Jhn 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

Jhn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Jhn 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you.

Jhn 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you.

...

Agape and peace to you and all,

Hebrews 12:2

Ron...

[exrockstar]

Again, it is man whom God holds to blame. And it was to men that God's judgment was pronounced against. The same men who were once called the "sons of God."

Exactly

"sons of God" are fallen angels.

if you think that "sons are God" are mortal men then maybe deeper studying may be needed.

Job 2:6Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

7And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

mortal men do not hang around Satan entering heaven.

[exrockstar]

Again, it is man whom God holds to blame. And it was to men that God's judgment was pronounced against. The same men who were once called the "sons of God."

Exactly

"sons of God" are fallen angels.

if you think that "sons are God" are mortal men then maybe deeper studying may be needed.

Job 2:6Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

7And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

mortal men do not hang around Satan entering heaven.

The theory that the sons of God in genesis 6 are falling angel is a false man made interpration,that in context of the scripture could not be more obviously wrong.

well...it is up to you to prove that men can wander in heaven talking to the lord.

Read my Job scripture i posted.

I'll be awaiting for your reply.

[exrockstar]

It says nothing in Genesis 6 about the sons of God wondering to and from heaven.

i posted Job 1:6 a couple of posts up.

seems like your already in denial before even investigating what im presenting.

how can one advance if they close others people views and not pay attention?

[Guest Greg Davies]

To assume that the phrase "sons of God" in one context means they same as it does in a different context is a presumption.

In Luke 3 we find a geneology for Jesus, the Son of God. In this geneology, Adam is also called the son of God. Context is needed, not just a similarity in phrasiolgy.

It is not possible for one species to procreate with another in God's creation. God's order is for each to reproduce "after his own kind".

Some of us have been watcing too many sci-fi flix. It all makes for a fascination story, it just isn't in God's order. Angels are asexual according to Jesus. Demons will take on a sexual persona as part of their seductive nature to snare someone, but they themselves so not procreate.

Greg.

[exrockstar]

To assume that the phrase "sons of God" in one context means they same as it does in a different context is a presumption.

In Luke 3 we find a geneology for Jesus, the Son of God. In this geneology, Adam is also called the son of God. Context is needed, not just a similarity in phrasiolgy.

It is not possible for one species to procreate with another in God's creation. God's order is for each to reproduce "after his own kind".

Some of us have been watcing too many sci-fi flix. It all makes for a fascination story, it just isn't in God's order. Angels are asexual according to Jesus. Demons will take on a sexual persona as part of their seductive nature to snare someone, but they themselves so not procreate.

Greg.

actually Hebrew and Greek make a huge difference.

"Sons of God" is a term used used lets say, in 2000 BC and does not have the same meaning now.

If youre going to conclude that "sons of God" is the same meaning 3000 years later then your not

moving with the times. there are many words that are evolving and we have to look at it in that sense.

Jesus once said that if you pray to go into "a closet"(Matthew 6:6). Closet meant room. Someone can arguably start a religion that does nothing

but pray in closets along with old clothes and shoes. Then can even call you an unobedient Christian for not going into a closet and

locking yourself in one. If you have a walkin closet then great but if its a shoe box then you may have problems.

So take into consideration the term "sons of God" in the context of time the book was written.

Job is said to be just about as old as Genesis.

[Massorite]

Again, it is man whom God holds to blame. And it was to men that God's judgment was pronounced against. The same men who were once called the "sons of God."

Exactly

"sons of God" are fallen angels.

if you think that "sons are God" are mortal men then maybe deeper studying may be needed.

Job 2:6Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

7And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

mortal men do not hang around Satan entering heaven.

The theory that the sons of God in genesis 6 are falling angel is a false man made interpration,that in context of the scripture could not be more obviously wrong.

Give some scripture that proves the so called man made interpratation wrong. Other wise the bible is quit clear when it says the sons of God presented themselves before the Lord and the most prideful angel was among them. Did they present themselves before the Lord on earth or before the Lord as He was sitting on His throne? If you can not prove us wrong using scripture, we are correct.