ajesuschrist_mathetes Posted November 9, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 572 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/03/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/14/1944 Share Posted November 9, 2007 http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen006.html#top King James Version (KJV) Genesis - Chapter 6 Gen 6:1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Greg Davies Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 My point here-hard to bear or think about, but appears that the female and male demons mentioned in the Scriptures Incorrect. The angels are asexual beings. Demons are fallen angels. Matthew 22 Jesus answered and said to them, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trusting Jesus Posted November 10, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 66 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,050 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 22 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/12/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/09/1952 Share Posted November 10, 2007 The phrase "sons of God" refers to Angels. The ones referred to in Genesis 6 were the ones who rebelled. Job 1:6, Job 2:1, and Job38:7 all use the same phrase "ben elohyim" which is translated "sons of God" and always refers to angels. It refers to a direct creation of God. Adam was directly created by God, as were the Angels. But Eve was taken from Adam. In the New Testament John tells us: "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." John 1:12-13. This is talking about us when we become a new creation in Christ. It isn't of the flesh but a new creation in Christ. You are correct, though, in stating from Matthew 22 that Jesus talked about angels not marrying, but notice that it says specifically the angels in Heaven. The one's referred to in Genesis 6 were the ones who rebelled. The reason the angels don't marry in Heaven is because they don't need to reproduce themselves. Humans on the other hand do. Lucifer has been trying to come between us and God since he led his rebellion. The "Angel view" is supported by secular historians such as the Book of Enoch, Josephus, and Eusebius. The Sethite view only came about in the 5th century by a man name Julius Africanus who tried to come up with an alternate view to the Angel view. Now, if Seth's line was so "Godly" then why were they all killed in the Flood? No, only Noah was "perfect in his generations". We know that Jesus was the only one who ever lived who was perfect in all His ways, so when it says that Noah was perfect it must be describing something besides his nature (he was sinful just like us). His blood was not corrupted. The reason for the Flood was to eliminate the wickedness in the world caused by the corruption of humanity with the fallen angels. The Bible also tells us that this continued even after the Flood. When the Israelites first were going to enter the Promised Land they were afraid of the giants there. In Deuteronomy 3:11 Og (whose name means long-necked) was one of these corrupted lines after the Flood. His bedstead was about 12 feet long and about 6 feet wide. There are other "giants" mentioned in the Bible and through the ages there are photos of extremely large people. I suspect that the mythology of the Greeks, Romans, and Norse are based on the Nephilim. And yes, I absolutely believe that this is going on today. Satan is still trying to corrupt us to keep us from God. <>< ><> Nathele Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Greg Davies Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 These particularly viscous demons are bound in the Abyss of hell, literally "the shaft of the Abyss", or "the bottomless pit", a terrifying place of utter darkness. The demons who are currently free know about this place, and they don't want to go there! Interesting that such manifestations of demons are essentially unheeard of during the Church Age, isn't it? Why? Because I believe the Restrainer, the special ministry of the Holy Spirit through the Church, holds back these types of manifestations. No one is breaking chains or anything like that in modern times. These demons knew that it wasn't their time yet to be sent to the abyss. Sure, Jesus, being Who He is, could have sent them anywhere He wanted just like He could have called twelve legions of angels to help Him at Calvary, but He didn't because He was submitted the Father's will. There is a time and a God given season for everything. In the book of Acts, the beginning of the Church Age, we find the power of God manifested in the Church in many ways including casting out demons. Jesus commanded all believers to do so (Mark 16:17). In I Cor. 12, we find the gifts of the Spirit which include the discerning of spirits. Now in Acts 2, Peter tells us what the manifestations of the gifts of the Spirit are for and for how long they are to be functioning in the Church Age according to the prophet Joel. The answer is until the great and notable day of the Lord. Paul also gives us clear guidelines as to how long the gifts are to operate: until the perfecting of the saints, until we come to the unity of the faith, etc. (Eph 4:11-13 and I Cor 13:10-12) Guess what? We aren't there yet. I hope we are close. I believe our generation is going to see the perfecting of the saints and the return of the Lord. I sure hope so. But to think that demons or satan are bound (yes, there some of our brothers and sisters who believe that satan is bound!) and are not effecting us is spiritual blindness and an intellectual deception. There are Spirit-filled churches all over the world that are casting out demons and engaged in spiritual warfare and tearing down strongholds. They are doing the Lord's work in preparing the Bride of Christ and perfecting the saints for the return of the Lord. I encourage you to get on board and join the fight. Get your head out of the sand (I don't say this condescendingly, but in the love of Christ.). We need every believer to fight the good fight of faith and to not be ignorant of the enemies devices. Greg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajesuschrist_mathetes Posted November 10, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 572 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/03/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/14/1944 Author Share Posted November 10, 2007 (edited) Thank you all for the responses. Back in 1992 I called for help {ended up in an 18 mo full time Good vs Evil study, first 5 months mostly natural, last 13 supernatural}.In the last 15 years I have only found one church leader who has had experiential knowledge of 1 John 4:1-6. To this day have not encountered anyone with experiential knowledge of that and having a Hebrews 5 state. Have been led to sources for those though {incl books}.The need is great for spiritual warriors, the suffering is just horrible and so widespread. The churches, in general in my experience, are simply unable to help, which increases the suffering. Have gone to 5 different pentecostal churches among others. The attacks I received-no one helped. 2 were direct attacks by the devil. The devil has hate and power that is indescribable. Initial post gave a Scripture ref to both female and male demons:if, In my spiritual judgment, The Holy Spirit has prepared you, then... By the way, the female demon's name was Ilene {just knew how to spell that w/o being told}-loathsome. The spiritual war for me started in earnest then, continues 24/7. One pastor told me "that was definitely demonic" when I described some of what happened and my failed attempts to protect myself. But gave no help. Part of a worldwide denomination {southern baptist} which claims that The Holy Bible is inerrant, infallible, with plenary inspiration and one has to believe that. I do-every word. In practice, when the Scripture "does not work", churches turn problems over to man {psychiatrists, doctors, health insurance:A.M.A. symbol=serpent on a staff, the Greco-Roman "God" of healing Asclepius, Hippocratic oath source in the B.C. era}, which does not work either, but poisons are offered {"pharmakeia"}as , for example, Revelation 18:23 teaches [4 places in Revelation the KJV uses sorcerers/sorceries where Greek behind that is "pharmakeia"=pharmacist,druggist,poisoner re Strong's Concordance. See also Vine's and others]. Merck-Vioxx latest. Apostasia in process?---2Thessalonians 2:3? "fierce, hard to bear". Edited November 11, 2007 by ajesuschrist_mathetes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Greg Davies Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Mark 16 He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well." This passage cannot be misconstrued to be typical of the entire Church Age, because clearly it is not. No one in 2007 has the gift of healing (to heal instantly by word or touch) or the special power to cast out demons. Jesus was speaking here of the near term fulfillment of the sign gifts, manifested by the apostles and their associates after Pentecost. Those sign gifts ceased a long time ago, after the canon of scripture was completed and the need to authenticate the message passed away; you are conclusion jumping. If your assertion that in 2007 no one has the gift of healing or can cast out demons is true, then somebody wake me up! I keep having this glorious reaccuring dream that when I go to church these people come up for prayer and they actually get healed by the laying on of hands. I've even seen people cast out demons and, well, dare I tell you, I've had demons cast out of me! On second thought, don't wake me up. This dream is too good. I wouldn't want to be in a reality where the sick had to remain sick and the oppresed could find no help. We would just have to be miserable waiting for Jesus to come rescue us from this "tartaroo". Words, give me ONE scripture to support your declaration that the gifts have ceased. And don't bother with I Cor 13:10. Paul explains the clear context of that scripture in the following verses, 11 and 12. It's about maturing in Christ. That which is perfect is the perfect man described in Eph. 4:11-13. The Father is seeking those that will worship Him in spirit and truth (John 4:23). Wherefore brethren, covet to prophecy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. Let all things be done decently and in order (I Cor 14:39,40). Jesus, the same yesterday, today, and forever. (Heb 13:8). Greg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kari21 Posted November 11, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 140 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,846 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/04/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/05/1987 Share Posted November 11, 2007 This explanation makes the most sense to me... Genesis 6 verses 1 and 2 state: "Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose." Commentary: We find there that the "sons of God" took wives from the "daughters of men." The important question here is, who are the "sons of God?" Are they demons, fallen angels taking the form of flesh? Would God call evil, fallen spirits "sons of God?" Notice also that these sons of God "chose" for "themselves" certain "daughters of men." Verse 3, "Then the Lord said, 'My spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty (120) years.' " Commentary: We see here that because the "sons of God" took for themselves the "daughters of men" God limited man's days to 120 years and said "My spirit shall not strive with man forever." Men had lived to be much older prior to this judgment, notice also, the judgment had to do with God's spirit abiding in man. In the previous chapter we find that Methuselah lived to be 969 years old. We must ask the question, "if the sons of God were fallen angels, why was the judgment against "man?" Romans 8 tells us twice that only those who possess the indwelling of the holy spirit are the "sons of God." Although the holy spirit was poured out on Pentecost in 31 A.D. , there have always been faithful men and women whom God had given His spirit to. In Psalm 51 we find King David praying that God would not take His holy spirit from him. Jesus called Abel righteous ( Matthew 23:35). In Genesis 5 we find that Enoch "walked with God" and God took him. Notice also the time line of the great cloud of witnesses so eloquently spoken of in Hebrews 11, almost all lived prior to the coming of Christ. Jesus told His disciples "Blessed are those who have not seen yet have believed." I believe He was referring to the faithful who lived before He came as the Savior. These Faithful servants could not look back to Calvary as we can, but had to look forward to the cross and believe that God would someday redeem them from their sins. Let us consider for a moment that the "sons of God" in Genesis 6:2 were faithful men whom God had given the holy spirit to. Men who were not only born of men but born again of God,- marrying worldly women born only of men. Now let's see how the passage begins to shape up. The Hebrew word translated as "strive" here literally means "rule in." Some ancient versions read "abide in" or "in his going astray he is flesh." The word "nevertheless" in verse 3 can mean "therefore" in Hebrew as well. Putting this together let me paraphrase,- When the faithful sons of God,- righteous men possessing the holy spirit, saw that the women of the world were beautiful, they lusted after them, taking them as their wives, thus becoming "unequally yoked" together with unbelievers. (1 Corinthians 7) They "chose" for "themselves" rather than letting God provide for them. In this they were quenching the spirit within them, which is why God said "My spirit shall not "strive", "rule in" or "abide in" man forever, for "in his going astray he is flesh," therefore I will limit his years on earth to 120. Notice that God is saying that His spirit could not stay in those who lusted after the flesh. This means that there were men who had the holy spirit abiding in them but fell away when they set their eyes and hearts on the flesh, in this case, women who were not born of the spirit. Verse 4 - 6, "The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, . . ., when the sons of God came into the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart." Commentary: "Nephilim" here is certainly the "mighty men,"- "men of renown." The Nephilim were a result of the unholy union of the sons of God with the daughters of men. Nephilim is taken from "Napal" meaning "to fall." But who are these who fell? Was it angels who had become demons at Lucifer's rebellion, or was it faithful men who fell away from God by going after fleshly desires? Notice that God said that He "saw that the wickedness of man was great." That "every intent" of man's heart was evil. And that God was even sorry that He had made man. Again, it is man whom God holds to blame. And it was to men that God's judgment was pronounced against. The same men who were once called the "sons of God." http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/nephilim.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted November 11, 2007 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,132 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,858 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted November 11, 2007 Matthew 22 Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven. Those angels are currently bound in the Abyss, and they will later be released dung the Tribulation (one of the trumpet judgments) to wreak havoc on the earth. The verse in Matthew only says that they don't marry, it does not say that they can't. It also adds a little phrase there that can be seen as this happened later also. the Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who whereof old, men of renown. NASB The Bible is quite concerned with the linage of Christ (before the flood and after), and I believe that it is because the genetic code was contaminated again after the flood. If there is nothing but humankind within the genome of the human race then why all the emphasis on this genetic line. If one wants to study this subject further, you can do so, but not from the safety of the word of God. There are books referred to by the Bible that discusses this subject in great detail. Problem is that there are things in those works that can't possiblly be "all" true, so things within those works have to be looked at through a much different glass than the Bible. The first book of Enoch discusses this subject and the Book of Jasher also..... however you'll find things there that are simply not believable. It may be that the authors of those books were trying to put things over on us, or there may be translation things or just over the years got mis-written. An example of Enoch is that the giants were about 300 feet tall...... I don't believe that the laws of physics would let this happen and we have found no real proof of this in any acrhylogy that I know of. But is the overall book to be discarded...... I personally don't think so, for it explains much of what is happening today.... as in the days of Noah. BTW according to thise two works there were only two hundred of the angels that cross over into this dimension in bodily form to raise families. If you destroy the seed of Eve, there will be no one to crush Lucifer/Satan as is promiced in Genesis. It didn't happen and the Bible is very careful to show the clean bloodline of Jesus. Most of the rest of us have been included in salvation by the very acts of Christ even though we may well have some of this genetic corruption. Long story to get into detail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massorite Posted November 11, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,973 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 36 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/26/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/13/1953 Share Posted November 11, 2007 http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen006.html#top King James Version (KJV) Genesis - Chapter 6 Gen 6:1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajesuschrist_mathetes Posted November 11, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 572 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/03/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/14/1944 Author Share Posted November 11, 2007 (edited) Mark 16 He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well." This passage cannot be misconstrued to be typical of the entire Church Age, because clearly it is not. No one in 2007 has the gift of healing (to heal instantly by word or touch) or the special power to cast out demons. Jesus was speaking here of the near term fulfillment of the sign gifts, manifested by the apostles and their associates after Pentecost. Those sign gifts ceased a long time ago, after the canon of scripture was completed and the need to authenticate the message passed away; you are conclusion jumping. If your assertion that in 2007 no one has the gift of healing or can cast out demons is true, then somebody wake me up! I keep having this glorious reaccuring dream that when I go to church these people come up for prayer and they actually get healed by the laying on of hands. I've even seen people cast out demons and, well, dare I tell you, I've had demons cast out of me! On second thought, don't wake me up. This dream is too good. I wouldn't want to be in a reality where the sick had to remain sick and the oppresed could find no help. We would just have to be miserable waiting for Jesus to come rescue us from this "tartaroo". Words, give me ONE scripture to support your declaration that the gifts have ceased. And don't bother with I Cor 13:10. Paul explains the clear context of that scripture in the following verses, 11 and 12. It's about maturing in Christ. That which is perfect is the perfect man described in Eph. 4:11-13. The Father is seeking those that will worship Him in spirit and truth (John 4:23). Wherefore brethren, covet to prophecy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. Let all things be done decently and in order (I Cor 14:39,40). Jesus, the same yesterday, today, and forever. (Heb 13:8). Greg. Me personally sort of looking for fellow spiritual warriors who have: 1. experiential knowledge of 1 John 4:1-6 2. a Hebrews 5 state 3. are in the whole armour of God-Ephesians 6:10-18 The spiritual war as The Holy Spirit has taught and led me to and thru is simply, to me, indescribably vicious. Hopefully I will not share anything that harms anyone. Understand that one may be too horrified to desire to be involved. All up to Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ as to what He created each one of us for. He has let me know what He expects of me personally - but WE are His workmanship for Him -Ephesians 2:10-"that the Father may be glorified in the Son."-John 14:13. Jesus Christ's Church-us. Loving one another as He has loved us. Maranatha! Hebrews 12:2. Agape and peace to all, Ron R. Edited November 13, 2007 by ajesuschrist_mathetes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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