The Bondage of Corruption

[OneAccord]

Does that mean we can't talk about the Second Law of Thermodynamics and the Bondage of Corruption anymore????

[traveller]

The Manifest Sons of God doctrine believes that the cycle is reversing itself and that eventually a super army of God's elect will arise, perfect and strong, and glorified, without having to die in the flesh. This army will be in charge of the world and will usher in the return of Christ.

Am I correct in this OneAccord?

[OneAccord]

Well, I had really hoped to stay on topic because I think it's an exciting topic, but it seems everyone wants to look for ways to discredit me so I guess we can talk about the 'mainifestation of the sons of God' if you would prefer.

Actually, Traveller, I was quite unfamiliar with this Manifest Sons of God stuff until you brought it up and I did a little search on it. Your post is pretty accurate except for the part about not having to die in the flesh. I don't know where that came from, but it seems to me a lot of Christians believe they won't have to die in the flesh but they will get raptured out of here.

It might be more accurate to say that these sons of God would die to the flesh, which is exactly what we are asked to be doing, crucifying our flesh, dying daily, and walking after the Spirit instead of the flesh.

Do you not believe that a 'super army' of God's elect will arise, perfect and strong, and glorified? Here in your post it is not accurate to say that they will come before Christ, but it defintely says that they will come with Christ. Jude 14 says, Behold, the Lord coming with ten thousands of His saints to execute judgement on all, to convict all who are ungodly......... We see in Rev 19:14 the armies in heaven, clothed in white linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. And finally there is the verse in Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God (some versions say manifestation, which is where the term comes from).

So who are these ten thousands of His saints anyway? That is the question here. Do you suppose that to be everyone who is saved? Or do you think there may be some who achieve or are elected for different levels of sonship? In the temple, which is a spiritual type of the spiritual temple, we see the High Priest (Aaron), then the sons of Aaron, then the Levites who basically did the grunt work of breaking and moving camp, a servant-priest class, if you will. Then there was the generally assembly. There were ranks within the general assembly as well. The judges, the 70 elders, etc. Do you not believe it might be this way in heaven as well?

As for being in charge of the world, what does it mean in Rev 5:10 And have made us kings and priests to our God, and we shall reign on the earth. Or Rev 2 26,27 And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations--He shall rule them with a rod of iron; they shall be dashed to pieces like the potter's vessels. Is every Christian an overcomer? What does it mean to be an overcomer.

I find nothing wrong with the Manifest Sons of God theology in the bit that I have looked into, but I am sure there are some who distort it, as humans love to do. In fact, I find Eby's works to be incredibly insightful, really searching out the deep things of God, very scriptural, and uplifting. He gives some plausible answers to some of the more difficult theological questions. Far more so than most of the pop theology out there today.

[OneAccord]

The Manifest Sons of God doctrine believes that the cycle is reversing itself and that eventually a super army of God's elect will arise, perfect and strong, and glorified, without having to die in the flesh. This army will be in charge of the world and will usher in the return of Christ.

Am I correct in this OneAccord?

Oh, one more thing, the cycle isn't reversing itself, Jesus Christ reversed it, but that's back to the second law of thermodynamics.

[traveller]

I got it from here OneAccord.

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/m22.html

Part of Neo-Pentecostalism.

The teaching that in the last days, a "new breed" of Christians will arise - the "Manifest Sons of God" - who will have super-natural spiritual power and be instrumental in subduing the earth. This movement is also referred to as "Joel's Army."

It is claimed that these people will be perfected into their "glorified bodies" prior to Christ's return. That perfection will allow them to subdue the earth for Jesus. Proponents of this doctrine also claim Christians, having a "divine nature," become "gods." They say Christ came into us as a "seed" and grows into a "prophet." Thus Christ does not physically return, but returns within us. The rapture, according to this doctrine, will be of the wicked - not of believers.

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings John S,

I agree with the others, your post by J. P. Eby is complete heresy. Universalism is alien to the scriptures.

Eby starts with a basic error in his postulation, and that is that God has NOT tried to reach the ALL men, but that there are multitudes that have never heard of Jesus Christ. Do you suppose that is because they don't know English?

Of course I am being a little facetious, but what does he base his claim on? He cannot possible know the heart and mind of every soul that ever existed. consider these verses:

Romans 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

I've pulled these from their original context, but they contain spiritual insight that applies to this question.

I hope you have not been deceived by Eby's false rhetoric.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

P.S.

You may want to consider these verses:

Ezekiel 18:20-28 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. 21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. 23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live? 24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die. 25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal? 26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die. 27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive. 28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

[JohnS]

I hope you have not been deceived by Eby's false rhetoric.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

Nope. Just checking the source.

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings OA,

Does that mean we can't talk about the Second Law of Thermodynamics and the Bondage of Corruption anymore????

Psalms 118:13-24 Thou hast thrust sore at me that I might fall: but the LORD helped me. 14 The LORD is my strength and song, and is become my salvation. 15 The voice of rejoicing and salvation is in the tabernacles of the righteous: the right hand of the LORD doeth valiantly. 16 The right hand of the LORD is exalted: the right hand of the LORD doeth valiantly. 17 I shall not die, but live, and declare the works of the LORD. 18 The LORD hath chastened me sore: but he hath not given me over unto death. 19 Open to me the gates of righteousness: I will go into them, and I will praise the LORD: 20 This gate of the LORD, into which the righteous shall enter. 21 I will praise thee: for thou hast heard me, and art become my salvation. 22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner. 23 This is the LORD'S doing; it is marvellous in our eyes. 24 This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.

Job 13:15-16 Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him. 16 He also shall be my salvation: for an hypocrite shall not come before him.

John 6:50-51 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

This physical creation shall die, even as the Psalmist and Job has referred, but even if I die, I will trust Him that I shall only momentarily sleep until the Lord breathes into me the new and imperishable life He has promised me. Even death shall be put "under His feet."

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings OA,

The exciting thing, the good news, is that the work of Jesus Christ, the cross and the resurrection were the turning point and put the law of entorpy into reverse and we are now seeing the restoration of all things, slowly but surely.

The "2nd law of Thermodynamics" is essential "to THIS creation". If it did not exist in this "natural" plane, NOTHING could exist. It does not diminish, but in fact, over time it must increase. As a ball rolling down a hill, it picks up momentum and its speed is ever increased the further it rolls down that hill. We can see this pretty clearly in thes verses:

Deuteronomy 32:22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

Zephaniah 3:8 Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy.

2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

This creation is doomed. The children of God may rise up for a season which can be shown in this verse:

Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

There shall indeed, in the last days be a multitude beyond count of saints that shall be saved and rise up to be counted worthy of following our Lord. But our "manifest destiny" does not lie in this earth, but in the "kingdom of God which is to come".

Blessings,

Dad Ernie