Salvation

[Guest mcm42]

Perhaps another (Or, YET another) thread on TULIP vs. DAISY is more appropriate, rather than clutter this one with another debate

Yep...In total agreement

:x: mums the word

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings His Son,

He knows how much temptation you can handle without yielding, and will not let satan tempt you beyond that.

I used to think of 1 Cor 10:13 as you indicate here. But I was wrong. I kept telling the Lord that I was "weak" and just couldn't resist the temptations I kept running into. I pleaded with Him for some divine intervention. Instead He told me: You can do all things through Christ which strengthens you. So I learned that ALL temptation that comes my way, I am ABLE to defeat. Now to be completely honest, I DO yield to "some" temptations, not because I am weak, but because I let my flesh dictate what I want to do instead of allowing the Holy Spirit to guide my path.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Miss Pryzma]

Wow thanks for all your replys - But to be honest I'm a little lost.. kinda don't know whats happening anymore

~~~"To bring it full circle, I believe that if we are chosen we will come to Christ... and therefore salvation can not be lost " ~~~ - mcm42, Are you saying then only some are 'chosen'? I thought He wants everyone, but only a few choose him?

nebula: ~~~" don't know what you mean by "didn't work out."

If I may, are you asking for yourself, somone else, or just curious about principles?

Talking theology won't do any good if you have an actual need. (If you have an actual need, but you don't want to broadcast it, you can PM me, if that would be OK.)" ~~~ - Well Asking for curiousity sake and sorta for myself aswell.

I know some of you are wondering why i said "Or you have tried but it just didn't work out." - Well what i was trying to say is that.. I know I have fallen away from him and I don't have a relationship with Him as I use to.. It's been like this since i've been away, so many new things and I've tried them all.. and just 'lived the worldly way' - u could say.. And when I moved back after travelling, I tried to get back into a relationship with Him, all the time temptation was coming out and I didn't do anything, but its wierd.. Cause I want to be in a relationship as I once was, but yet I want to do the other things. And I was doing all right when I got back but it just has it's up's and downs most of the time it's down.. And I really just don't know what to do! ... I truely believe everything he did and all of it - and know some on discussions that have taken place on the boards - to post and make comments - But I don't feel that I can in a way, because of how I'm struggeling with this. Thats why I brought this up.. Say if Jesus comes back right now and I'm in this sorta 'mode' then what??? And whats my problem why can't I get out of this 'mode' - thats also why i said "have tried but it just didn't work out."

Well I hope that all made sence...

[nebula]

Wow thanks for all your replys - But to be honest I'm a little lost.. kinda don't know whats happening anymore 

Told ya this was gonna happen!

That's why I asked you if you had a personal reason for asking. Too many folk here are more interested in debating theology than to address the real need. Something told me you had a need and gettihng filled with theological mumbo jumbo wasn't what you needed to hear!

Actually, what you said makes sense. You were walking with the Lord, you fell away, you want to come back, but it's a struggle, things aren't the same, you are tempted by "the world," . . . .

OK, first things first. Have you repented of your falling away? What I mean is, have you ever actually took the time out to specifically confess to God you turned away from him (confessing your sin before Him), admitting your guilt, acknowledging you were wrong, saying you are sorry, telling Him that you miss Him and the relationship you had with Him, and that you want to be restored to Him?

Have you done this?

If not, try it!

Just pour out your heart to Him this way. And don't just mumble out the words and move on, really take the time out. After you've said all you have to say, wait. Rest. Sit in His presence. Allow God the time to respond to you. LEt yourself reach out to Him with your mind and heart, not just your words, and find HIm there!

Can you do this?

[Ovedya]

"But God commends His own love to us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having been justified in His blood, we will be saved through Him from the wrath." (Romans 5:8-9; Also see Rom. 8:39)

Pryzma, most of us understand what it is like to have left our first love to follow after the world. From my past experience I can testify that there is always the feeling of not being worthy enough to return to the Lord. You feel like you have to be clean first before coming back to God and restoring your relationship with Him. Even sometimes you may not feel like you really want to return to the Lord for some reason.

But, see, the thing is, "...While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." There was nothing that we could have done to make ourselves any more worthy for Christ to have died on our behalf. You see? Even verse 7 says that scarcely for a righteous man would anyone die. In our concept it seems sometimes that we need to have a certain amount of righteousness or goodness before we can even come to God. But Christ's death was the exact opposite. He died for us because of our sinful, unrighteous condition.

So Christ's death is just as applicable to you even after you have been regenerated with His life, and yet have fallen away. Christ's shed blood is just as applicable to you now as it was when you first believed into Him.

I know, sometimes you just don't feel like you want to return. But you know what? That's okay too. What if you simply prayed to the Lord and told Him that? What if you prayed, "Lord, right now I don't feel like I love you enough. I don't feel like I can come back to you and have the same relationship with you that I once had."? At least by praying, by telling the Lord how you feel, you have opened the door a little bit. Do you think that the Lord would ignore such a prayer, or that He would be offended with your just telling Him how you feel right now? Hey, at least you're praying. At least you are opening up just a little bit.

You know, it only takes a crack in the door to light up a dark room. You don't have to fling the door wide open for the light to come in. Sometimes just a crack will do. The Lord will meet you where you are. You don't have to come up to His level, He has already come down to yours.

As for the Lord's return. There is not one believer on the earth that will not have to answer for something before the Lord. So I wouldn't worry too much about, "What if the Lord returns and I am still in sin?" We are all in sin, sister. I remember this phrase I picked up from a tract a long time ago. It said, "If the Lord were to come back right now, what would He find you doing?" That's a scarry thought! But one day I realized that this kind of thinking just motivates us out of fear. The Lord does not work out of fear, He works out of love and compassion. The Lord Jesus loves us. That is why He died for us, and that is why He corrects us sometimes.

So don't worry about the "What if's," sister. Just take care of what you need to take care of. The Lord is watching and waiting. When you are ready then He is ready too. How about you just sit down and tell Him how you feel right now - whether it's good or bad. I guarantee you that He will be listening. And He will meet you right where you are, to give you life, and to fill you with His love.

Grace to you. Feel free to PM me anytime.

[Guest mcm42]

~~~"To bring it full circle, I believe that if we are chosen we will come to Christ... and therefore salvation can not be lost " ~~~ - mcm42, Are you saying then only some are 'chosen'? I thought He wants everyone, but only a few choose him?

This begs me to speak on Tulip... Please forgive me I too but I will try to stear as clear from that as I can...try I say try...

I don't mean to confuse a heart that is honestly seeking, and will play no part in turning one away. Your question is valid...honest, and simple, the answer can often be difficult, depending on how far you want to take it.

So for that reason I will not address this here. If you want to know more about my quote feel free to e-mail me, and I will help, and I'll try to keep it brief.

As far as the issue at hand, here is my belief. C.H. Spurgeon writes this

But when the Holy Spirit comes into the heart He comes like water.  That is to say He comes to purify the soul.  He who today lives as wickedly as he did before his pretended conversion is a hyppocrite and a liar.  He who this day loves sin and lives in it just as he was prone to do before, let him know that the truth is not in him, but that he has received the strong delusion to believe a lie!

That is my stance on the issue. If someone loves His sin, and says he is converted, his conversion was not true. The very word means "convert" to be changed, specifically in the area of sin. A person who loves sin does not fear God. I ask you this, do you hate your sin? Maybe not while it's happening for indeed sin is delightful to the flesh, but when you walk away do hate the fact that you have done what you have done?

Do you revel in fear of God, and disdain for that which you did? I do! If you do not I would wonder if your salvation was for another reason other than to turn from your sins!

This is my stance, if you say you believe, I believe you, that is fine. You say "but i LOVE MY SIN" I say you are in need of repentance. You say I am not saved "I believe You" and I love my sin, I say the same to you "you are in need of repentance." The answer is this Turn from your sins... saved or unsaved that you may be sure God lives in you!

[Guest mcm42]

2 Peter 1:8-11

"For if these qualities are yours and are increasing they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins. Therefore brothers be all the more diligent to make your calling and election sure, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall. For in this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!"

What qualites? You'll have to read 2 Peter 1:1-8 to find that out...

God bless hope this helps

[His son]

Greetings His Son,

He knows how much temptation you can handle without yielding, and will not let satan tempt you beyond that.

I used to think of 1 Cor 10:13 as you indicate here. But I was wrong. I kept telling the Lord that I was "weak" and just couldn't resist the temptations I kept running into. I pleaded with Him for some divine intervention. Instead He told me: You can do all things through Christ which strengthens you. So I learned that ALL temptation that comes my way, I am ABLE to defeat. Now to be completely honest, I DO yield to "some" temptations, not because I am weak, but because I let my flesh dictate what I want to do instead of allowing the Holy Spirit to guide my path.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

2 Tim 3:16-17

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

2 Pet 1:20

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

2 Sam 14:14

14 For we must needs die, and are as water spilt on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again; neither doth God respect any person: yet doth he devise means, that his banished be not expelled from him.

Job 37:24

24 Men do therefore fear him: he respecteth not any that are wise of heart.

Reply

DE

It seems like your are contridicting yourself in that post I say seems like, you say that you used to see it as meaning satan can't tempt you above what you are able and God will always have a wayout, and then you turn around and say that you are still doing some because you of your own freewill submit to the temptations of the flesh. Now we are all partakers of that same problem, but that doesn't change anything about what that Scripture says. Christ demonstrated that way out in The garden when He resisted the temptation to the extent of sweating blood, to ask The Father to take the cup from Him period, but went on to say however Thy Will Not Mine be done. His flesh definitely didn't want to continue to resist that temptation. And to make this act of His even more profound, and awsome to us, is the fact that He knew what the results of that freewill choice would be. He said we will do all things He did and more. This is the place where satan expounds so much effort in deceiving us, by that false doctrine, after all there was only one perfect, and that was Jesus. I mean you can get volumns on that teaching. And in the meantime written throughout the total of Scripture God's doctrine on the issue is ignored. We are told in everyway conceivable that we can be Just as pure, and perfect as Christ was as a man, and He once again in another Scripture Johns 17th that even as The Father sent Him so also has He sent us. One has to deny a lot of Scripture to say that it is not possible for us to be totally sin free while we are on This pigrimage.

[salt and light]

Dear Pryzma,

Hear are some scriptures for you to check out in your bible to help you know that a christian CANNOT lose salvation,and I hope they help. God Bless.

John 10:27-29

Ephesians 4:30

2 Cor.7:10

2 Tim.2:13

1 Peter 1:5

1 John 3:9

[His son]

Dear Pryzma,

Hear are some scriptures for you to check out in your bible to help you know that a christian CANNOT lose salvation,and I hope they help. God Bless.

John 10:27-29

Ephesians 4:30

2 Cor.7:10

2 Tim.2:13

1 Peter 1:5

1 John 3:9

2 Tim 3:16-17

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

2 Pet 1:20

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

2 Sam 14:14

14 For we must needs die, and are as water spilt on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again; neither doth God respect any person: yet doth he devise means, that his banished be not expelled from him.

Job 37:24

24 Men do therefore fear him: he respecteth not any that are wise of heart.

Reply

Pryzma,

Don't take the way of anyone who teaches non Biblical Doctrine. Here is just one list of Scriptures I have on the salvation Issue. If you study these and you take the other list given you, and read the context of total Scripture you will find that they were adressed to those who God in His foreknowledge would make the right freewill choices.

Salvation Conditions of

Genesis 22:18

Exod 15:26

Exod 19:5+

Exod 20:6+

Exod 23:20+

Lev 26:3-43

Deut 4:1,30

Deut 4:40*

Deut 5:10

Deut 5:29

Deuteronomy 6:14-15,24-25

Deut 7:9

Deut 7:12-15

Deuteronomy 10:12+

Deut 11:26-28

Deut 12:28

Deut 15:4-5

Deut 28:1-14

Deut 29:9+most

Deut 30:1-6+most

Josh 1:8*

Joshua 14:9+*

Judges 5:2

IKing 2:3-4

IKing 3:14

IKing 8:23

IKing 9:3-9

1 Chr 22:13

1 Chr 28:7-8

2 Chr 7:17-22

II Chronicles 12:7

2 Chr 30:9

Job 36:9+

Psalm 15:1

Ps 24:4+

Ps 34:18+

Psalm 50: most

Ps 73:23-26+28

Psalm 14518+

Proverbs 2:21

Isaiah 1:19+

Isaiah 33:15+

Isaiah 44:22

Isaiah 45:17

Isa 50:5-9

Jeremisah 3:12

Jeremiah 4:1

Jer 7:3-7,23

Jer 11:1-5

Jer 12:16

Jer 15:19-21

Jer 17:24-27

Jer 22:4-5

Lamentations 3:26

Ezekiel 18:26

Hosea 7:1

Hosea 14:1+

Zech 3:7

Mal 3:6-12,16-17+

Mathew 5:20

Matthew 7:13,21

Matt 10:22*

Mat 12:49+

Matt 16:25

Matthew 18:3

Mathew 19:16-30

Matt 24:13+

Matthew 25: most

Mark 3:35

Mark 4:1+

Mark 8:34+

Mark 9:43+

Mark 10:34+

Mark 13:13

Mark 16:16+

Mark 13:20

Luke 9:23,24,56

Luke 11:28

Luke 13:24*

Luke 17:33+

Luke 18:18+

Luke 19:8+

John 3:15+36

John 4:14+*

John 6:27,+most

John 8:24+,31-32,51

John 10:27+

John 14:6

John 15:2

John 20:31

Acts 4:12,22

Acts 14:22

Romans 1:15+

Romans 2:6+,10+

Romans 6:11+,19

Romans 8:13+24

I Corintians 9:27

II Corinthians 4:16

II Corinthians 5:15

II Corinthians 7:1

Galatians 5:5

Ephesians 1:13

Ephesians 2:10

Ephesians 4:most

Philippians 2:12

Col 1:22-23

Colossians 2:6+

II Thess 2:3,13+

I Timothy 1:16

I Tim 2:14+

I Timothy 4:16

I Timothy 6:11-14

II Timothy 2:2,21

Titus 1:1-3,16

Titus 2:12+

Titus 3:7+

Hebrew 2:3

Heb 3:6+14+

Heb 5:9

Heb 6:9,12

Heb 10:25,36

Hebrews 12:1+

James 1:12,27

James 2:14+

James 4:7+

I Peter 1:2-5,16+much

I Peter 1:25 II Pet 2:1+

I Peter 3:9-10+

I Peter 4:1

II Peter 1:4-11

II Peter 3:10-14+

I John 2:3,5,17,24+

I John 3:3

I John 5:18

Jude 1:3

Revelation 1:3+

Revelation 2:Most

Rev 3:4-5+10+12+20-21

Revelation 3:Most

Revelation 12:9&10+

Revelation 14:12

Revelation 16:15

Revelation 21:7

Revelation 22:14