kari21 Posted December 7, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 140 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,846 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/04/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/05/1987 Share Posted December 7, 2007 . . . but rest assured, anyone wishing to be saved, WILL be saved. What do think the goats would have to say about that? It would be those wishing truly to be saved, to be servants of God...not those using Christianity for what they can get out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted December 7, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted December 7, 2007 Nobody comes to God unless He draws them (John 6:44). Anyone wishing to know God will find God. We may not know all of the ways God uses to bring one to a saving knowledge, as we now only look through a glass darkly, (1 Corinthians 13), but rest assured, anyone wishing to be saved, WILL be saved. Amen sister! Here's the biblical proof for what you say. Psaln 19:1 says, "The heavens declare the glory of the God; and the firmament showeth his handiwork." Romans 1:20 confirms this thought in the NT and in John 1:9 it says that Jesus "lights" every man that comes into the world. If that's not enough, check out Titus 2:11, "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. No, I can't explain how He does it. I'm sure we can all think of situations that would seem impossible to us. But God is the God of the impossible and that's good enough for me. What a great God we have. Greg. Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, This is the scripture that I use for this type of question. I agree with you. We do not understand how God will show Himself to those who can not hear the Word spoken to them, except that He does it through His creation. We do serve a Glorious God! OneLight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeCajunboy Posted December 7, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 113 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,430 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 33 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/24/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/28/1952 Share Posted December 7, 2007 . . . but rest assured, anyone wishing to be saved, WILL be saved. What do think the goats would have to say about that? Have "goats" spoken to you? Then how do you know what they have to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutzrein Posted December 7, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 305 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/22/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/12/1950 Share Posted December 7, 2007 . . . but rest assured, anyone wishing to be saved, WILL be saved. What do think the goats would have to say about that? Have "goats" spoken to you? Then how do you know what they have to say? Goats don't have to speak to me. Scripture tells me what they WILL say (in KJV), '"Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?" . . . And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.' Sound like they were REALLY wishing to be saved to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted December 8, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted December 8, 2007 There is another way to look at this. it may very well be that for those that never hear, God knoew that thery would not receive the gospel anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted December 8, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted December 8, 2007 There is another way to look at this. it may very well be that for those that never hear, God knoew that thery would not receive the gospel anyway I find this very hard to believe. Those who were/are in the outer most parts of the world, and those who were before the Gospel, may very well of worshiped God without knowing who He was. God made Himself known to everyone through His creation. Not His Bible, as we know it, but Himself. Why would you think that everyone who had not been preached to would of not accepted God? That is shutting out millions of people from the grace of God. Is it really so hard to believe the He has touched the hearts of those who never had a chance hear the spoken Word? This is cutting Him pretty short, in my opinion. We all will be surprised when we are brought into His presence and see then millions who have the right heart for God. Those that have heard the spoken word and those who knew God through His creation, and have not heard. Then our questions will be answered. If I am wrong, I will apologize to everyone. If I am right, then we all can worship Him for His love to all. OneLight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutzrein Posted December 8, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 305 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/22/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/12/1950 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Why is it so hard to accept this? 1 Unless man is born of God he is dead. This is the result of Adam's sin. 2 Man can only come to the Father through Christ 3 Man cannot come to Christ unless the Father draws him 4 Man cannot see or enter the kingdom of heaven unless he is born of God. This is Life. 5 Faith is imparted by God and it is through faith that man believes in God's son. 6 Unless man believes he perishes . . . because he is already dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted December 8, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted December 8, 2007 Why is it so hard to accept this? 1 Unless man is born of God he is dead. This is the result of Adam's sin. 2 Man can only come to the Father through Christ 3 Man cannot come to Christ unless the Father draws him 4 Man cannot see or enter the kingdom of heaven unless he is born of God. This is Life. 5 Faith is imparted by God and it is through faith that man believes in God's son. 6 Unless man believes he perishes . . . because he is already dead. I do not dispute what you have said. What I am trying to get everyone to do is to realize that God works in ways that the Bible does not tell us. God is not contained between Genesis 1:1 and Revelation 22:19. He is greater then what He has told us. How can I say this? Read John 21:25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written. If you think about this verse, you will have to accept that not all of what Jesus did was written for us. There was a lot more. Again, the accounts of Jesus were mostly about His three years of trying to reach out to the lost. Now, if John can say this about the last three years of Jesus, think about how much more there is to know about God! How can you say that those who have not heard about Jesus is not born of God? God judges the heart, does he not? Think about all that have claimed to know Jesus and did not allow Christ to change them ... are they going to Heaven just because they knew about Jesus? Remember Matthew 7:21-23: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutzrein Posted December 8, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 305 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/22/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/12/1950 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Onelight Why is it so hard to accept this? 1 Unless man is born of God he is dead. This is the result of Adam's sin. 2 Man can only come to the Father through Christ 3 Man cannot come to Christ unless the Father draws him 4 Man cannot see or enter the kingdom of heaven unless he is born of God. This is Life. 5 Faith is imparted by God and it is through faith that man believes in God's son. 6 Unless man believes he perishes . . . because he is already dead. Onelight - my response is in red. I do not dispute what you have said. What I am trying to get everyone to do is to realize that God works in ways that the Bible does not tell us. God is not contained between Genesis 1:1 and Revelation 22:19. He is greater then what He has told us. How can I say this? Read John 21:25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written. I agree If you think about this verse, you will have to accept that not all of what Jesus did was written for us. There was a lot more. Again, the accounts of Jesus were mostly about His three years of trying to reach out to the lost. Actually I believe that Jesus came for His own. They were already children of God. The picture that is portrayed in scripture of Jesus seeking the lost (sheep) is often misinterpreted to mean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted December 8, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted December 8, 2007 Mutzrein, I choose not to copy the whole post to save a lot of scrolling ... I am not bringing in a new doctrine, I am just pointing out that we do not know who God is going to allow in to Heaven. All we have is what the Bible tells us, which is all we need to be saved and follow Jesus. The Bible is for us, to draw us to God, not for us to know how God will judge every man that had ever lived. This is why I say that God will judge the hearts of all men, for they all are His creation. Just as the Jews thought it wrong to go to the Gentiles, I find this same train of thought when I point out that God shows every living creature Himself through His creation. Even though we find this in Romans, as you pointed out that Paul was addressing the sinners, it is a universal (I know .... people hate that word) message to everyone, not just Rome. As Paul opened the understanding to those of Rome, I believe that God opened the understanding to the rest of the world, but it was never recorded. I had been taught that we must never look for more then what is in black and white before our eyes, just as a horse with blinders. Old fears of being miss led put our understanding of God in a box that was neatly handed to us and we were warned not to go outside of it. Through the Holy Spirit, I have been shown that we do not know God as He truly is, but only what we can handle and understand. We do have finite minds. What has to be known is simple. God loves everyone. God judges everyone. God has His measures for judging. We are not God and will never be able to judge as He does. We do know that those who have heard and rejected His salvation will not be accepted to heaven, but lost eternally. This is very clear and there is no argument against this. That leaves all the rest of those who have never heard. These are those I am speaking of. God is a God of Love. He is a Just God. He is a Merciful God. He hears the prayers of those seeking Him and answers. It is His desire that all come to Him. Like I said in my first sentence, I am not bringing in another doctrine, I am putting out what I see as Gods love for all. Anyone who wants to believe God will not save those who have not heard the Word of Salvation is just in doing so, for it is written for us this way. I am also believing in salvation through Christ, for I have heard the Word. Yet, I choose not to judge those who have not heard and will allow God to decide. Remember that the Bible is for everyone who has heard or will hear. Even though the Bible is the Word of God for all to hear, those who have never heard can not be held accountable for what they have not been taught. I really believe that God will judge them according to what He finds in their hearts. OneLight edited to clarify my last paragraph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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