Fundamentalist

[Kansasdad]

What is there not to agree on?

Trinity

1 John 5:6-8

This is He who came by water and blood

[stan4257]

I have no intention of getting between two antagonists who obviously know each other's point of view very well, but I do wonder if the above statement is not self contradictory.

How is it possible to disregard and discard the very words of Scripture when those words are not there in the first place?

He denies that the Bible teaches the Deity of Jesus. Are you saying that the Bible does not teach the Deity of Jesus. When a person in the face of overwhelming testimony of Christ's Deity continues to deny it, He is calling both Jesus and the Father, liars.

And why should I not wish to get between these two antagonists? Because I do not see much evidence of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control in this conversation.

What you see is a level of honesty that Mutzrein is not willing to face up to.

It is that sort of statement to which I was referring. You are extrapolating from a quite reasonable and gentle remark to create a challenge that is not warranted by what has been written.

You said that something was written (the very words) in Scripture. I cannot find it, nor is it there. To extrapolate from what you said to say that it is implied might be a reasonable method of discourse but it is not what you said.

Nor do you give any evidence of the fruits of the Spirit in your methods of arguing. As a person claiming the authority to speak, as you say 'honestly' on behalf of Christ, it must be assumed that the fruits are there but they are well hidden in the way you say things.

I am not calling both Jesus and the Father liars. You have no authority to say that. I did not say that.

So where does that leave you?

And, believe me or not, (that is your prerogative), I am being loving and gentle and kind and patient in why and how I am saying this to you.

Clearly you have been in this forum for a long time and appear to use that as your authority for belittling and attacking others, but that is not acceptable to me, either when you direct it at me or to others, even though I am a newcomer to Worthy Boards.

It is my wish to be around for a long time, but that will not happen if we cannot behave as brothers and sisters in Christ one towards the other. We have a much higher code than non-Christians, and that is based on LOVE, and in a forum like this that should be the principal criterion on which all discussions are based.

Love you, brother.

[Guest]

Dear Brothers

A Question Or So

If You Can See The Father Only When You See The Son

Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

John 14:9

Who Is The LORD Jesus?

If No Man Has Seen The Father Except The Son And If It Was Truly The Son That Declared Him....

Who Was It That Talked To The Saints Of Old Declaring The Will And The Pleasure Of God?

Who's Finger Was It That Wrote On Nebuchadnezzar's Wall?

Who Walked In The Garden With Adam And Eve?

Who Talked Face To Face With Brother Moses?

Who Met Joshuah At Jericho With A Sword?

No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 1:18

Who Is The LORD Jesus?

What Does Denying The Father And The Son Have To Do With The Antichrist?

What Does Acknowledging The Son Have To Do With Having The Father

And Denying The Son Have To Do With Not Having The Father?

I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

1 John 2:21-29

Who Is The LORD Jesus?

One Voice, The Son And The Holy Spirit. I Count Three.

And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Matthew 3:16-17

But There Is One LORD

And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Mark 12:29

Who Is LORD?

Confess What?

Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 10:32

Confess The Lord Jesus

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Romans 10:9

Be Blessed Beloved Of The LORD

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Guest shiloh357]

It is that sort of statement to which I was referring. You are extrapolating from a quite reasonable and gentle remark to create a challenge that is not warranted by what has been written.

The challenge is already there. Denying the Deity of Jesus is a challenge to the integrity of Scripture.

You said that something was written (the very words) in Scripture. I cannot find it, nor is it there.

Yes, and I was referring to Mutzrein's denial of Jesus' Deity, which as I said is testified in Scripture. Are you saying you cannot find the Deity of Jesus in Scripture?

To extrapolate from what you said to say that it is implied might be a reasonable method of discourse but it is not what you said.

Yes, it is what I said.

Nor do you give any evidence of the fruits of the Spirit in your methods of arguing.

I have mistreated anyone, nor have I said anything ugly to anyone. I simply stated the the truth: One cannot claim to be a Christian and reject the Deity of Jesus. By rejecting the Deity of Jesus, it has a profound effect on how one reads the words of Christ and it also effects the degree of authority to which they feel that Christ's teachings have over their lives. It further casts doubt on how what the New Testament teaches about Christ's nature and being and THAT bears directly on what the Bible teaches about salvation and the death of Jesus on the cross.

As a person claiming the authority to speak, as you say 'honestly' on behalf of Christ, it must be assumed that the fruits are there but they are well hidden in the way you say things.

I haven't claimed any authority. I am just stating the truth of Scripture regarding the Deity of Jesus. I don't feel the need to coddle anyone or sing them lullabies. The truth is the truth.

I am not calling both Jesus and the Father liars. You have no authority to say that. I did not say that.

If you deny the Deity of Jesus, you ARE calling them liars. Are you denying the Deity of Jesus?

And, believe me or not, (that is your prerogative), I am being loving and gentle and kind and patient in why and how I am saying this to you.

I don't really care.

I have not been mean or hateful to anyone.That is just some silly perception you are projecting on to me.

Clearly you have been in this forum for a long time and appear to use that as your authority for belittling and attacking others, but that is not acceptable to me, either when you direct it at me or to others, even though I am a newcomer to Worthy Boards.

I am not belittling or attacking anyone. I really fail to see what you are whining about.

It is my wish to be around for a long time, but that will not happen if we cannot behave as brothers and sisters in Christ one towards the other. We have a much higher code than non-Christians, and that is based on LOVE, and in a forum like this that should be the principal criterion on which all discussions are based.

And when someone is living in the mistaken notion that they are a Christian but reject a foundation teaching like the Deity of Jesus, the greatest act of "love" is to present them the truth, and also to prevent their views from poisoning other brothers and sisters.

[OneLight]

What is there not to agree on?

Trinity

1 John 5:6-8

This is He who came by water and blood

[damo1]

It is that sort of statement to which I was referring. You are extrapolating from a quite reasonable and gentle remark to create a challenge that is not warranted by what has been written.

The challenge is already there. Denying the Deity of Jesus is a challenge to the integrity of Scripture.

You said that something was written (the very words) in Scripture. I cannot find it, nor is it there.

Yes, and I was referring to Mutzrein's denial of Jesus' Deity, which as I said is testified in Scripture. Are you saying you cannot find the Deity of Jesus in Scripture?

To extrapolate from what you said to say that it is implied might be a reasonable method of discourse but it is not what you said.

Yes, it is what I said.

Nor do you give any evidence of the fruits of the Spirit in your methods of arguing.

I have mistreated anyone, nor have I said anything ugly to anyone. I simply stated the the truth: One cannot claim to be a Christian and reject the Deity of Jesus. By rejecting the Deity of Jesus, it has a profound effect on how one reads the words of Christ and it also effects the degree of authority to which they feel that Christ's teachings have over their lives. It further casts doubt on how what the New Testament teaches about Christ's nature and being and THAT bears directly on what the Bible teaches about salvation and the death of Jesus on the cross.

As a person claiming the authority to speak, as you say 'honestly' on behalf of Christ, it must be assumed that the fruits are there but they are well hidden in the way you say things.

I haven't claimed any authority. I am just stating the truth of Scripture regarding the Deity of Jesus. I don't feel the need to coddle anyone or sing them lullabies. The truth is the truth.

I am not calling both Jesus and the Father liars. You have no authority to say that. I did not say that.

If you deny the Deity of Jesus, you ARE calling them liars. Are you denying the Deity of Jesus?

And, believe me or not, (that is your prerogative), I am being loving and gentle and kind and patient in why and how I am saying this to you.

I don't really care.

I have not been mean or hateful to anyone.That is just some silly perception you are projecting on to me.

Clearly you have been in this forum for a long time and appear to use that as your authority for belittling and attacking others, but that is not acceptable to me, either when you direct it at me or to others, even though I am a newcomer to Worthy Boards.

I am not belittling or attacking anyone. I really fail to see what you are whining about.

It is my wish to be around for a long time, but that will not happen if we cannot behave as brothers and sisters in Christ one towards the other. We have a much higher code than non-Christians, and that is based on LOVE, and in a forum like this that should be the principal criterion on which all discussions are based.

And when someone is living in the mistaken notion that they are a Christian but reject a foundation teaching like the Deity of Jesus, the greatest act of "love" is to present them the truth, and also to prevent their views from poisoning other brothers and sisters.

damo1

to shiloh 357

yes we are to pressent them the truth and yes we are to prottect our selves from false doctrine and from what i call seeds of doubt to wear one begins to question what ever jesus has done in our lives

i am only know walking hand in hand with a brother who i pounced on because he decided to attac a non beliver who was hear seeking and not pulling people that wear communicating with her away from the faith i am very grounded in gods word i am of the streets when i was convicted it was gods holy spirit that convicted me and i have made it like a vow to wear i wil do what ever i can to walk along the side of those that the church its self finds to hard to reach out to or show compassion and forgivness

its like you are only able to be forgiven if you agree with how i see gods word for my self if you do not agree with me or slap me on the back well you are the one who is walking in sin

when people come hear we should show utter respect and also alow that person to have their say and how they see things for them selves no one is perfect the only perfect one is jesus can you do what jesus did for the world wil you be willing to give your life over to those who hate what we belive in wil you go into a country that persecutes christians and stand on a street and openly say jesus is lord over my life knowing by what you say at any given momment you can be killed for what you belive in

John 3 new spirit filled life bible

16 for god so loved the world that he gave his only begoten son that whoever belives in him

should not perish but have everlasting life

john 12 new spirit filled life bible

45 and he who sees me sees him who sent me

46 i have come as a light into the world that whoever belives should not abide in darkness

47 and if anyone hears my words and does not belive i do not judge him for i did not come to judge

the world but to save the world

48 he who rejects me and does not receive my words has that which judges him the word that i have spoken

will judge him in the last day

how are those on the out side going to understand what we know ?

everytime i open my self up to the holy spirit and put my trust in him when it comes to gods word we read from our own translations i am always learning something new and when the holy spirit brings something to the surface for me to repent off or deal with i do not hold back like i use to when i was young i hand this over and i move on

i even try to get on with my other brothers and sisters who will not see things the way i do when it comes to gods word for me i like to be around like minded people who can talk openly and honestly on a topic i am in a good study group and i like digging at the root of gods word and hearing how some one else hears this for them selves i do not just sift threw gods word and then when i am comfterbal with the way i see this for me self i come down on any one that does not agree with me

if we all know the warnings in this bible and if we are open to the holy spirits leading in our lives then we should leave these people in gods hands god is going to judge us for what we say and do while we are living on this earth i wil not place my self in a situation wear by my words some falls or goes back to their old life style

i have seen this happen to often with in the churches i found my self in we who are strong and grounded in gods word should be able to guide those that are weak but in meakness in gentlness and in love

i use to hate pastors at one stage when i reached out to the church for help and wear i oppend up to my pastor and told him i was being violent to my wife and towards my own son i was told men like my self are not welcome

i hope you can hear what i am saying hear i have been reading all of your posts on this forum i have been with worthy for a while the way i express my self might not meet to your education or grammer or how you express your self in the topics you find your self involved in but i do read everything you say some of it has been spot on but some of the things i did not want to agree to have also been of track

i know that you are a smart man and a very educated man i am teaching my self how to use this computer my education and how i express my self comes from gods word i would not be hear today yet god has his hands on me

i hope we can walk side by side with out being pig headed or hard headed when it comes to topics like this how i express my self should not be a problem to those who read what i say

i hope you can see wear i am comming from when a brother shares some thing from the heart try not to belittle him i hate this when people have nothing better to do than try to be little someone

i have forgiven that pastor that spilt me and my wife appart i am going back to wear my walk started and the pastor i had forgiven is supporting me in the move i am going to make once my filapino citazen ship is approved if you met me on the streets and if you tried to share gods word to me when i was bouncing in the strip clubs i found my self in i would have done what the muslims are doing know and that is openly hit you and mock your god you strongly belive in

when we disagree with how some sees this bible try to correct them in love and not like a bear or lion

god bless from your brother in the lord damien stipic

[OneLight]

What is there not to agree on?

Trinity

1 John 5:6-8

This is He who came by water and blood

[Guest shiloh357]

its like you are only able to be forgiven if you agree with how i see gods word for my self if you do not agree with me or slap me on the back well you are the one who is walking in sin

I have neither implied or said any such thing, damo.

when people come hear we should show utter respect and also alow that person to have their say and how they see things for them selves no one is perfect

damo, I am not forbidding anyone to have their say or speak what they believe.

I have not persecuted or been hateful whatsoever. I simply know what the Bible says about the Deity of Jesus, and I am not going sacrfice that truth on the altar of compromise just to make someone else feel "respected."

I have not been disrepectful. I have simply told the truth. It is not a matter of being "perfect" and I have not implied that my theology is 100% perfect. However, there are some defining elements of the Christian that we simply cannot compromise on, and one those is the Deity of Jesus.

I am not going to give up any ground on this issue to coddle someone's feelings. As the song says, "You gotta stand for something, or you'll fall for anything" (Aaron Tippin).

[stan4257]

It is that sort of statement to which I was referring. You are extrapolating from a quite reasonable and gentle remark to create a challenge that is not warranted by what has been written.

The challenge is already there. Denying the Deity of Jesus is a challenge to the integrity of Scripture.

You said that something was written (the very words) in Scripture. I cannot find it, nor is it there.

Yes, and I was referring to Mutzrein's denial of Jesus' Deity, which as I said is testified in Scripture. Are you saying you cannot find the Deity of Jesus in Scripture?

To extrapolate from what you said to say that it is implied might be a reasonable method of discourse but it is not what you said.

Yes, it is what I said.

Nor do you give any evidence of the fruits of the Spirit in your methods of arguing.

I have mistreated anyone, nor have I said anything ugly to anyone. I simply stated the the truth: One cannot claim to be a Christian and reject the Deity of Jesus. By rejecting the Deity of Jesus, it has a profound effect on how one reads the words of Christ and it also effects the degree of authority to which they feel that Christ's teachings have over their lives. It further casts doubt on how what the New Testament teaches about Christ's nature and being and THAT bears directly on what the Bible teaches about salvation and the death of Jesus on the cross.

As a person claiming the authority to speak, as you say 'honestly' on behalf of Christ, it must be assumed that the fruits are there but they are well hidden in the way you say things.

I haven't claimed any authority. I am just stating the truth of Scripture regarding the Deity of Jesus. I don't feel the need to coddle anyone or sing them lullabies. The truth is the truth.

I am not calling both Jesus and the Father liars. You have no authority to say that. I did not say that.

If you deny the Deity of Jesus, you ARE calling them liars. Are you denying the Deity of Jesus?

And, believe me or not, (that is your prerogative), I am being loving and gentle and kind and patient in why and how I am saying this to you.

I don't really care.

I have not been mean or hateful to anyone.That is just some silly perception you are projecting on to me.

Clearly you have been in this forum for a long time and appear to use that as your authority for belittling and attacking others, but that is not acceptable to me, either when you direct it at me or to others, even though I am a newcomer to Worthy Boards.

I am not belittling or attacking anyone. I really fail to see what you are whining about.

It is my wish to be around for a long time, but that will not happen if we cannot behave as brothers and sisters in Christ one towards the other. We have a much higher code than non-Christians, and that is based on LOVE, and in a forum like this that should be the principal criterion on which all discussions are based.

And when someone is living in the mistaken notion that they are a Christian but reject a foundation teaching like the Deity of Jesus, the greatest act of "love" is to present them the truth, and also to prevent their views from poisoning other brothers and sisters.

I was quite willing to be mistaken, but your answers confirm to me that I was not.

Still love you as a person who is struggling with how to represent the love of Jesus Christ, and still enormously pleased that Jesus Christ shows his love to me differently than you do.

God bless.

[damo1]

its like you are only able to be forgiven if you agree with how i see gods word for my self if you do not agree with me or slap me on the back well you are the one who is walking in sin

I have neither implied or said any such thing, damo.

when people come hear we should show utter respect and also alow that person to have their say and how they see things for them selves no one is perfect

damo, I am not forbidding anyone to have their say or speak what they believe.

I have not persecuted or been hateful whatsoever. I simply know what the Bible says about the Deity of Jesus, and I am not going sacrfice that truth on the altar of compromise just to make someone else feel "respected."

I have not been disrepectful. I have simply told the truth. It is not a matter of being "perfect" and I have not implied that my theology is 100% perfect. However, there are some defining elements of the Christian that we simply cannot compromise on, and one those is the Deity of Jesus.

I am not going to give up any ground on this issue to coddle someone's feelings. As the song says, "You gotta stand for something, or you'll fall for anything" (Aaron Tippin).

damo1

to shiloh357

i agree with you we should not bow down but we can stand for the truth and at the same time win those over and draw them to the truth of gods word i was not pouncing on you shiloh i do hear wear you are comming from and like you i also get up set and i get very angry at how gods word can be so confusing it says in 1 john 4 to test the spirits and we are to do this and when a false doctrine is pressented we are to challange this

i have learnt not to attack the person why i am challanging their false doctrine i leave this to god to deal with and when ever i do this he acts

we have this group not far from me and these guys have caused a lot of trouble the pastor has not gone threw bible collage they are not connected to a church they meet in a house and higher out our town hall to bring in miracle healing services in our free tv week we get threw the free paper that is deliverd to all the farmers and those living with in armidale they even place their false doctrine and scripture passages to support their missions state ment

i have sat with sevral others in these meetings they hold hear and i can honestly tell you shiloh i have wanted to do more than get into a biblical argument with these clowns they say women should have no role in the body not even be ordained as its a mans world i can see wear they have lost it but try telling these clowns is like talking to a brick wall

yet they are nerves of the pastors that have joined as one as this is our town and we wil have no one bring in a false doctrine to this community that is going to do more harm then set a person free

i hear you shiloh and please do not think that i am attacking you some of your views i support and you are spot on in some of the things you say i can only go by the studying i have done and the talks i have sat in on

so please when i said what i said i said this in brotherly love this was not an open attack or was i pulling you down

the holy spirit has been teaching me how to do things in a difrent light and i am finding this very use full as these guys know gods word very wel one thing they belive in is you have to work for your salvation to get to heaven which is a load of hog wash but this is what is being taught to its members

i do not hold on to trinity or oneness views i belive in all of gods word shiloh does this mean i need to repent i belive in everything that is said in gods word i take heed to everything that is said in revelations and every day i ask the holy spirit to open my eyes to the truth of gods word

i have had people say to me how can you not belive in trinity or oneness i simply state it creates to much argument i belive in the god head i belive that jesus walked this earth not god i belive that the father the son and the holy spirit work as a team i try not to confuse no one when i reach out to non beliver and lead them threw the sinners prayer i tel them to alow the holy spirit to be your teacher when it comes to gods word

this is just how i am shiloh and so are the people in my church we do not twist gods word or put god in a box i pray to the same god as everyone else how i see this for my self i try to alow the holy spirit to bring that conviction when it comes to some of the topics on this forum but it does not mean i wil cut my self of from a brother or a sister challange but let the holy spirit bring in that conviction with out him we are lost shiloh its his role not our role

we just need to be that open vessel and alow him to work threw us

god bless from your brother in the lord damien stipic