My sixth birthday

[jmwhalen]

Christianity-the Premise

Given that I will be celebrating my sixth birthday next month, I thought that perhaps a few reflections on my basis of becoming "...in Christ

[nebula]

****Why is the page width spread out?*****

[WayneB]

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It's fixed now.

[WayneB]

Bless you Brother John.

Excellent insight! I would never have thought these words were that of a young child in Christ. God has blessed you, as he did Paul, with the ability to probe deeply into matters of faith.

The only place where I differ, although somewhat slightly, is the concluding remark ---

I have heard many times that one of the strongest evidences for the validity of the Christian faith is that "it changes lives, or "results in changed lives". Christians should be very careful about presenting this argument.

It seems to me that it goes against the opening premise ---

Given that I will be celebrating my sixth birthday next month, I thought that perhaps a few reflections on my basis of becoming "...in Christ

[mobile21]

I truly don't believe you are 5 years old J.M. Whalen.

[jmwhalen]

Thank you again brother Wayne for your encouraging words. I have learned from you how invaluable encouraging words can be to others by your posts, whether those words be to "...them who are of the household of faith....", or the lost(Galatians 6:10). I am working hard on my approach as a witness-its a continual learning, sharpening, and refining process. It seems that whenever I get "beaten up", "pounded" if you will, on the forum, you are there to "pick me up", and correct me(as you should!) wisely- and I thank God the Father through the Lord Jesus Christ for that. Do you remember when George Foreman knocked out Joe Frazier about 30 years ago? Howard Cosell said "Down goes Frazier, Down goes Frazier"!

I think we are "on the same page", and I agree we need to be effective witnesses for the grace of God, and as you and I both voiced, witnesses need to 1.tell the truth, and 2. not be silent or risk "being held in contempt"! My main point was that we need to keep repeating, witnessing that the crux, the basis of Christianity is centered on what the Lord Jesus Christ did for us 2000 years-the centrality of the cross and the resurrection(1 Cor. 15:1-4), and not what we do as a basis for our salvation, and more specifically, not making the outward actions of a person the basis, or evidence, or determining factor as to whether that person is saved. We need to insist that what was done for us 2000 years ago is sufficient, and all we are asked to do is rely on this. I know you agree with this. Without making a judgement as to whether Mother Theresa, or Mahatma Ghandi, for example, were saved, for "...The Lord knoweth them that are his...."(2 Tim. 2:19), I am sure that many people will automatically conclude that the evidence of their "good works", positively speaking, or "lack of bad works"(not smoking, not drinking,not "sleeping around", etc), negatively speaking, is evidence that they were saved. After all, they were "good people". But scripture testifies otherwise, since there "is none that doeth good", for "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God", and if they were not trusting in what was already done for them 2000 years ago, they are lost. I know you agree with me, and more importantly, you agree because this is scripture's testimony.

After all, David was a murderer and an adulterer after he was saved. Moses was also a murderer.Peter denied the Lord Jesus Christ. Noah got drunk. But God doesn't require a job interview, and doesn't hire and fire like most bosses. And that is because He is more our Father than our boss, and we are His Sons, regardless of how often many times we act more like children in our walk than mature Sons. Sonship first, service second. But He does not calculate what bad things we did in 2003, or yeterday, or 5 minutes ago-its not even on record. Sure, there are many reasons why God should not have called us to be witnesses. But if we are wonderfully in love with Him, if we hunger for Him like our next breath, He will use us as witnesses in spite of who we are and where we have been, and in spite of our often faulty "fleshly" walk. And if we Christians can grasp this concept, than we can appreciate the grace of God, and thus understand, as it is written:

"For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world...." Titus 2:11, 12

"being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus." Philippians 1:6

"And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work." 2 Cor. 9:8

"For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." Eph. 2:10

"And we pray this in order that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and may please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God...." Col. 1:10

Yes, we are saved by grace, sanctified by grace, and will be glorified by grace. And yes Wayne, you are correct that we should have changed lives and that should be our testimony of God's exceedingly abundant grace. But I am sure that you would agree that our motivation is driven by what He has done for us, and we want others to know about this "God of all grace" that we have!

In Christ,

John Whalen

PS-Mobile 21:"I truly don't believe you are 5 years old J.M. Whalen."

Thank you for the compliment-I think!

[Guest dove2]

I do have a disagreement in at least one area JM.

David was never saved before he died. He was not and could not be saved until Jesus died for him.

David believed in God and he was king because God made him so. However, David did not know Jesus Christ as Savior of his life. David is one of the reasons that Jesus descended after his death and burial and before his resurrection. Jesus preached to David, Moses and all the rest of the Old Testament patriarchs. They had looked forward to this moment with eagerness while still living. Even Peter did not understand salvation until after Jesus death, burial and resurrection. They had to all accept Jesus.

[WayneB]

Yes, we are saved by grace, sanctified by grace, and will be glorified by grace.  And yes Wayne, you are correct that we should have changed lives and that should be our testimony of God's exceedingly abundant grace.  But I am sure that you would agree that our motivation is driven by what He has done for us, and we want others to know about this "God of all grace" that we have!

Yes, on this, we are in agreement brother.

We are His work through and through from beginning to end!! Glory to God!

Love ya' brother,

Wayne

[CWJ]

Hey