What's in a name?

[nebula]

What's in a name?

Well, I am sure at least most here have had experience enough to know that a name means a lot, if not everything.

So, I was thinking about the names of the people descended from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

In the time of the patriarchs, they were called Hebrews.

From Egypt and following into the founding of their own land, they were called Israelites. . . after Jacob who became Israel.

During the captivity of the Southern Kingdom in Babylon, they were called Jews. Whether this was started by the Babylonians to take the people away from the name of their homeland, Israel, or whether this began from the people of the Southern Kingdom calling themselves as Judahites (or the equivalent) after the name for their Kingdom Judah, I do not know.

But for whatever reason, when they returned to the land of Israel, they kept the name "Jew" rather than returning to their previous identity as "Israelites."

Ironically, the descendants of the 10 Tribes who had been scattered to the nations likewise were given the name "Jew" rather than continuing to be called Israelites. Anyone notice that?

After the fall of Jerusalem to the Romans in 70 A.D. and the subsequent scattering of the Jewish people, the name "Jew" remained to identify the people.

Now that Jews are returning to Israel and Israel has once again become a nation, the people of Israel go by the name "Israeli."

What I find interesting in this is how the name "Israeli" somehow in the minds of people, particularly mainstream Christians, makes them a separate entity from the Israelites of Scripture. Has anyone else noticed this, or in reading this see what I mean?

I see a disconnection in the majority of the "Church" to see the Jews and to see the Israelites as the Israelite people from of old, that somehow Israel today is a separate entity from the Israel of ancient times.

Thoughts?

[tah]

I have never seen them as different..

they are synonymous...

I do not know whey anyone would see them differently ..

[eve]

We can't equate the Israeli of today with the Israelites of ancient times because there are many Arabs who have been given citizenship of Israel and so are also called Israelis. They may also not be of the Judaism faith.

[Tehilah Ba'Aretz]

The subject of, "Who is a Jew?" has been argued in the halls of government, the courts and the streets of Israel. The Israelis can't seem to decide. So, no wonder there are questions in the minds of some Christians about the identity of the people who live as citizens in the nation called Israel. We can state some facts though. The vast majority of the citizens of Israel are Jewish. The Jewish population of Israel only represents about half of the Jews in the world though. The character of the nation of Israel is modern and Jewish with a decidedly conservative/orthodox flavor in places. The Israelis do not think of themselves as Israelite mainly because they think in Hebrew. The term Hebrew refers to a transient people which is not true of the people during the time of either the first Temple or the second. Actually, it doesn't work for the people living in Israel today either.

You are so right! There are wonderful nuances in the names and appellations applied to the modern people of Israel. I've got to think about this some more.

[Guest shiloh357]

The term "Israeli" is typically identified with the Jewish people living in Israel. Israel, despite its Arab citizenry is still considered by and large, a Jewish nation and that can be seen by how Israel is treated by her enemies.

It is also interesting to note that the Land and nation was called "Israel" in the first century, in the NT and Paul called himself an Israelite and Jew though he was not from one of the northern tribes and was not from the tribe of Judah.

[Tehilah Ba'Aretz]

I keep hearing things about the 10 lost tribes. Its sort of like a background rumble. Somewhere, somehow, we need to put that to rest. There are people who are descended from the ones who did not return from the Babylon captivity who are scattered around the world, it is true. However, the tribes of the Jewish nation are not lost. All of the tribes were represented in the people who returned. A careful examination of the Scriptures following the building of the Second Temple will reveal that they are all included. Those who refused to return to the land of Israel remained and were scattered around the world but they do not represent the 10 tribes as such.

[John Bernall]

What's in a name?

Well, I am sure at least most here have had experience enough to know that a name means a lot, if not everything.

So, I was thinking about the names of the people descended from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

In the time of the patriarchs, they were called Hebrews.

From Egypt and following into the founding of their own land, they were called Israelites. . . after Jacob who became Israel.

During the captivity of the Southern Kingdom in Babylon, they were called Jews. Whether this was started by the Babylonians to take the people away from the name of their homeland, Israel, or whether this began from the people of the Southern Kingdom calling themselves as Judahites (or the equivalent) after the name for their Kingdom Judah, I do not know.

But for whatever reason, when they returned to the land of Israel, they kept the name "Jew" rather than returning to their previous identity as "Israelites."

Ironically, the descendants of the 10 Tribes who had been scattered to the nations likewise were given the name "Jew" rather than continuing to be called Israelites. Anyone notice that?

After the fall of Jerusalem to the Romans in 70 A.D. and the subsequent scattering of the Jewish people, the name "Jew" remained to identify the people.

Now that Jews are returning to Israel and Israel has once again become a nation, the people of Israel go by the name "Israeli."

What I find interesting in this is how the name "Israeli" somehow in the minds of people, particularly mainstream Christians, makes them a separate entity from the Israelites of Scripture. Has anyone else noticed this, or in reading this see what I mean?

I see a disconnection in the majority of the "Church" to see the Jews and to see the Israelites as the Israelite people from of old, that somehow Israel today is a separate entity from the Israel of ancient times.

Thoughts?

Shalom,

here's my thoughts:

before we were in Egypt, we were called Hebrews ("Iv'rim" in Hebrew). when we left Egypt, we were known as Israelites. For a long time we were called "Israel" as a nation. when there was a division in the kingdom, Northern and Southern kingdoms being Yis'rael (Northern) and Y'hudah (Southern). when the Northen Kingdom (the ten tribes) was taken captive, they were dispersed throughout the nations, but they never were called Jews or Y'hudim, because they were from Yis'rael, not Y'hudah. only those of us who were from the Southern Kingdom of Y'hudah were ever called Jews or Y'hudim. at the time of the Return from Babylon we retained the title of Y'hudim (Jews) because we were returning to our land of Y'hudah.

after the fall of Y'rushalayim (Jerusalem) in 70 C.E. we retained, once again, the title Y'hudim (Jews) because we were from the Southern Kingdom of Y'hudah as it was restored after the return from Babylon. and although it was occupied by various groups (greeks, romans, etc), we still held to who we were ~ Y'hudim.

as for returning to the name of "Israeli", it is only fitting since the country is called Israel, and not Y'hudah (or Judah), nor is it a Kingdom anymore. though in speaking with one of us individually, we would say we are Jews, because that is our culture which was before there was a state of Israel.

as for this perceived seperation. it is a shame. for those who embrace Yeshua/Jesus as their Lord, Saviour, Messiah, have become a part of Israel, they have been grafted in as wild olive branches along with and within the domesticated branches, and they have entered into the common wealth of Israel. they have become a part Israel, as the Prophecy in Jeremiah 31 alludes to. for it begins: "The days come that I will make a New Covenant with the House of Israel and with the House of Judah... and this is the Covenant that I will make with the House of Israel in those days...etc." notice, it mentions both houses, Israel and Judah, but in the final part it mentions only Israel. because in the Messiah, there is neither Jew nor Gentile, but they are all one in one olive tree, some grafted in (Gentiles), some natural (Jews), but they all are Israel in the Messiah.

Shalom v'Chesed,

Z'ev Yochanan