Scientific evidence for Noah's flood

[givennewname]

Gen 7:18 And the waters prevailed, and increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.

Gen 7:19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high mountains that were under the whole heaven were covered.

Gen 7:20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

Gen 7:21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both birds, and cattle, and beasts, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:

The Biblical account of the flood stated that the waters covered all the high mountains under heaven were covered. How ever one tries to translate verse, the truth is rather obvious. the Flood was universal. that is the only way to interpret the words "under heaven"

Maybe "interpreting" is the wrong thing to do here. Maybe readers should seek to "understand" the writer. From the writer's perspective, the entire known world was covered with water. That's all that matters. The only good reason for "interpreting" under heaven to mean the whole world is to find an explanation for things like dinosaur extinctions and the Grand Canyon, ect... These things obviously took time that literalists can't account for. Besides, remember God's beef was with sinful men. If, as most literalist believe, civilization was limited to the Fertile Crescent area--why would God destroy the whole planet? The entire world, as the writer understood it, was covered with water and destroyed.

Dear brother,

Greetings in the name of the Lord,

When you mention literalist, i assume you meant people who believe that every word of the Bible is true and meant what conveys. We don't hold that every word has to be literal, we accept that some of the Bible is in figurative language. I hold that where ever possible, the words in the Bible is literal unless it defies logic to take it in a literal sense. Otherwise, a non literal translation of the text could render the Bible to mean whatever one wishes it to mean.

I have been involved in research in the medical field, during this time, i feel that even the so called "evidence"" is subject to interpretation which changes in 10 year cycles. "Gospel truths" that some hold fast are later debunked by newer so called evidence.

In the discussion of the above text, when the writer says all the mountains under heaven-there is only two heaven mentioned in Genesis, the first mention in the first chapter of Genesis-

Gen 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

Gen 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.

or the spiritual realm where God reside. Now the word heaven is not open to "interpretation" to a "literalist" as you call them as we or I believe the Bible can interpret itself. Heaven and what it means is only interpreted by the writer himself and it is best only to ask him what heaven means by referencing other portions of text that is written by the same author.

Besides, remember God's beef was with sinful men. If, as most literalist believe, civilization was limited to the Fertile Crescent area--why would God destroy the whole planet? The entire world, as the writer understood it, was covered with water and destroyed.

Just to mention two issues here. I don't think that the Fertile crescent is the only habitable area of the earth. In fact the Bible says very clearly that after the incident of the Tower of Babel, God scattered the humans all over the face of the earth, therefore, there were many civilisations not mentioned that were present on earth. That is why the flood has to be universal.

Gen 11:9 Therefore was the name of it called Babel; because Jehovah did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did Jehovah scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Gen 1:2 And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Earth being defined again in the beginning of Genesis in verse 1 and not the "civilized earth"

why would God destroy the whole planet?

The answer is simple, the whole world was corrupt and only Noah and his family was righteous in God's sight..

Gen 6:5 And Jehovah saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Gen 6:6 And it repented Jehovah that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Gen 6:7 And Jehovah said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the ground; both man, and beast, and creeping things, and birds of the heavens; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Gen 6:8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of Jehovah.

Gen 6:9 These are the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, and perfect in his generations: Noah walked with God.

under heaven to mean the whole world is to find an explanation for things like dinosaur extinctions and the Grand Canyon, ect...

A universal flood would explain the extinction of dinosaurs and the grand canyon perfectly.. I don't see any problems there. In fact if the polar ice caps melted there would be more than sufficient water to cover the whole earth. It would explain the fact that there is a large salt water lake in the high Andes mountain and the strange salt water species of fish found in oceans.

God bless!

Edited August 1, 2008 by givennewname

[doverfish]

What's the name of the alt water lake in the high Andes?

[doverfish]

What's the name of the alt water lake in the high Andes?

Secondly, I think one of the biggest difficulties in you and I having a discussion on this topic is not the issue of literal interpretation. I think that since the evidence seems to support a regional, not global flood. So when I look at the physical world and see this apparent contradiction, I look back at the author. I realize he is telling the truth---the entire wolrd "under heaven" as he understood it was flooded.

Like I mentioned earlier, if Noah's flood killed all the dinosaurs and created all the fossil beds (and as you say killed people worldwide)---where are the human fossils?

[givennewname]

What's the name of the alt water lake in the high Andes?

Lake Maracaibo largest lake in south America is a salt water lake.

[givennewname]

What's the name of the alt water lake in the high Andes?

Secondly, I think one of the biggest difficulties in you and I having a discussion on this topic is not the issue of literal interpretation. I think that since the evidence seems to support a regional, not global flood. So when I look at the physical world and see this apparent contradiction, I look back at the author. I realize he is telling the truth---the entire world "under heaven" as he understood it was flooded.

Like I mentioned earlier, if Noah's flood killed all the dinosaurs and created all the fossil beds (and as you say killed people worldwide)---where are the human fossils?

Just giving my own personal opinion here, I think we have to read the Bible as it is written. I don't think the Hebrew language in which the first 5 books are wirtten is so restrictive as not to speak plainly and clearly to express the author's meaning.

As i pointed out, the flood is global, the Bible says all mountains under heaven. It did not say all mountains in the known and habitable world. If the Bible were to say so, i am sure that the Hebrew language is well able to say so. I suppose one's interpretation is influenced by whether one believes believes Moses to be the author or God, and I believe both persons authored the Bible, and both are able to express the Bible clearly and simply.

The story of a Global flood is recorded in many cultures, for eg the Chinese, Indian and Babylonian cultures are full of stories of a global flood.

Evidence uncover depends on what the discoverer believes in and wat they are looking for. If a scientist is bent on looking for fossilized creatures of prehistoric man of half apes and half human creatures, I supposed he is not going to find it..Just a guess of mine.

[givennewname]

What's the name of the alt water lake in the high Andes?

Lake Maracaibo largest lake in south America is a salt water lake.

while I dont agree with some of what doverfish is saying, Lake Maracaibo is not really in the Andes, it in on the coast inbetween to fingers of the Andes and I dont think it has much elevation.

The question of elevation is not important. the lake is above sea level and water does not flow above sea level in the opposite direction.

[givennewname]

Maybe doverfish may be interetsted to read of the finding of dinosaur and human footprint together in fossil findings?

[doverfish]

Maybe doverfish may be interetsted to read of the finding of dinosaur and human footprint together in fossil findings?

I'm well aware of human the human footprint in the dinosour footprint. Seen it since I was a kid. Who knows? But everyone is avoiding the main question because they don't want to face a real problem. If you believe a global flood killed the dinosours and created the fossils--and it killed all the people---then where are the people fossils? They were buried together, right???

Furthermore, of course every civilizatiom has a global flood myth. Flooding is the most universal and deadly of al natural disasters. However, many really smart people think the civilazations you mentioned are all talking about teh same flood--the Black Sea flood.

Finally, the lake in the Andes seems like an interesting case. I'll read more about it. However, there are many lakes thousands of feet above sea level, not created by floods. Most often they reside in the cldera of a volcano.

This is what ultimately drove me away from fellowsip though. There is NO REASON why we can't accept teh Bible word for word and still believe in a regional flood. The world, all the mountains, everything under the heavens--as Moses knew it---was destroyed. He had no concept of the true size of the world. By sticking to this viewpoint with the geography staring you in the face, is what Satan probably wants. Because it makes Christians look uneducated. We haven't even begun to talk about the craters on this planet that can only be seen from space that are the remaining evidence of life ending meteor impacts. None of these impacts are recorded in human history----but the evidence of their occurance is undeniable. Did the flood leave huge impact craters???

[givennewname]

Maybe doverfish may be interetsted to read of the finding of dinosaur and human footprint together in fossil findings?

I'm well aware of human the human footprint in the dinosour footprint. Seen it since I was a kid. Who knows? But everyone is avoiding the main question because they don't want to face a real problem. If you believe a global flood killed the dinosours and created the fossils--and it killed all the people---then where are the people fossils? They were buried together, right???

Furthermore, of course every civilizatiom has a global flood myth. Flooding is the most universal and deadly of al natural disasters. However, many really smart people think the civilazations you mentioned are all talking about teh same flood--the Black Sea flood.

Finally, the lake in the Andes seems like an interesting case. I'll read more about it. However, there are many lakes thousands of feet above sea level, not created by floods. Most often they reside in the cldera of a volcano.

This is what ultimately drove me away from fellowsip though. There is NO REASON why we can't accept teh Bible word for word and still believe in a regional flood. The world, all the mountains, everything under the heavens--as Moses knew it---was destroyed. He had no concept of the true size of the world. By sticking to this viewpoint with the geography staring you in the face, is what Satan probably wants. Because it makes Christians look uneducated. We haven't even begun to talk about the craters on this planet that can only be seen from space that are the remaining evidence of life ending meteor impacts. None of these impacts are recorded in human history----but the evidence of their occurance is undeniable. Did the flood leave huge impact craters???

If there is a human foot print fossil, would that not qualify as a human fossil?

Maybe all the humans are turned into gas that yr vehecle burnt??

[doverfish]

Maybe doverfish may be interetsted to read of the finding of dinosaur and human footprint together in fossil findings?

I'm well aware of human the human footprint in the dinosour footprint. Seen it since I was a kid. Who knows? But everyone is avoiding the main question because they don't want to face a real problem. If you believe a global flood killed the dinosours and created the fossils--and it killed all the people---then where are the people fossils? They were buried together, right???

Furthermore, of course every civilizatiom has a global flood myth. Flooding is the most universal and deadly of al natural disasters. However, many really smart people think the civilazations you mentioned are all talking about teh same flood--the Black Sea flood.

Finally, the lake in the Andes seems like an interesting case. I'll read more about it. However, there are many lakes thousands of feet above sea level, not created by floods. Most often they reside in the cldera of a volcano.

This is what ultimately drove me away from fellowsip though. There is NO REASON why we can't accept teh Bible word for word and still believe in a regional flood. The world, all the mountains, everything under the heavens--as Moses knew it---was destroyed. He had no concept of the true size of the world. By sticking to this viewpoint with the geography staring you in the face, is what Satan probably wants. Because it makes Christians look uneducated. We haven't even begun to talk about the craters on this planet that can only be seen from space that are the remaining evidence of life ending meteor impacts. None of these impacts are recorded in human history----but the evidence of their occurance is undeniable. Did the flood leave huge impact craters???

If there is a human foot print fossil, would that not qualify as a human fossil?

Maybe all the humans are turned into gas that yr vehecle burnt??

All it's evidence of is a guy stepping in some mud. If I scrawled my name on one of the blocks of the pyramids, it would not be evidence of doverfish in ancient Egypt.