Seeking a Better Understanding

[Catsmeow]

This verse has left me in a quandry. I hope someone has better insight into it. I've been trying to equate it to our daily life in the here and now.

It seems as though it's saying "all things are pure" actually...but it loses it's "purity" when a person does such things knowing it will offend someone else.

20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense. 21 It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak.

[Douay]

I think it says that anything is permissible for a Christian as long as it isn't forbidden in scripture, but that you should be willing to give anything up if it would injure the faith of another Christian. The last line I think means to follow your conscience.

"Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense."

I think that means that you shouldn't let something that is good for you be bad for someone else. Do not destroy the work of God, even if you don't sin by doing what you are doing if you cause another to sin or become weak you have sinned.

Catholics call it 'occasion of sin', or being a bad example.

Sorry if that was a somewhat broken response.

[serotta]

THe God's Word version renders this scripture as:

Don't ruin God's work because of what you eat. All food is acceptable, but it's wrong for a person to eat something that causes someone else to have doubts. The right thing to do is to avoid eating meat, drinking wine, or doing anything else that causes another Christian to have doubts. So whatever you believeabout these things, keep it between yourself and God. The person that does what he knows is right shouldn't feel guilty. He is blessed. But if a person has doubts and still eats, he is condemned because he didn't act in faith. Anything that is not done in faith is a sin.

So my take is, for example, if you think drinking alcohol in moderation is fine, but you're with another Christian that is unsure whether they should drink or not, you should abstain from drinking rather than convince them that it is okay. Doing what you know is right is good. Doing something that you have doubts about is a sin. Causing someone else to sin is also a sin. Does that make sense?

[keslc]

This is a great passage! I think there have been some good explanations given. I also think this is a perfect example of what I was talking about in the "woman's role in worship" thread. Again, a great example of Paul speaking to conflict and avoiding it by not partaking in things that would cause your brother to stumble. This can be applied to so much more than food or drink. (many of the things discussed on this forum tattoos, women's roles, drinking, etc...)

Don't ruin God's work because of what you eat. All food is acceptable, but it's wrong for a person to eat something that causes someone else to have doubts. The right thing to do is to avoid eating meat, drinking wine, or doing anything else that causes another Christian to have doubts. So whatever you believeabout these things, keep it between yourself and God. The person that does what he knows is right shouldn't feel guilty. He is blessed. But if a person has doubts and still eats, he is condemned because he didn't act in faith. Anything that is not done in faith is a sin.

I love that! I think that puts it much clearer!

So whatever you believeabout these things, keep it between yourself and God. The person that does what he knows is right shouldn't feel guilty. He is blessed.

I totally agree with that. I don't think that is license to do whatever we want to do, but in cases (such as discussed on this forum) where christians often disagree, I think it is prudent to bring it in prayer to God and see where He leads you with it. I don't believe God won't convict you if you come to Him with a sincere and seeking heart, truly wanting to know if you're wrong. He will let you know when you're wrong.

God Bless! :hug:

[tsth]

I can share on this from a personal experience.

I used to drink wine. I used to think it was ok as a Christian to drink wine. I drank moderately (at home). My mother began drinking heavily after my father died, it became a great bondage to her, it almost killed her. It caused a major separation in my family over her drinking "problem", many did not want to recognize it, until it was almost too late. Anyway, after my mother was delivered from this, no one drank around her, which was a right thing. I still continued to have an occasional glass of wine at home. But.........everytime I read the Word, and came to this passage, I could take in all of it up to verse 21, but then, verse 22, started speaking to me, as I was feeling condemned in my heart over my glass of wine. (for various reasons, that were not big, nevertheless, I was convicted by the last part of verse 22.......and verse 23. I had to be real honest with myself and confess that I could not stand before the Lord on those verses and continue to drink, for it was no longer in faith, my heart and the Spirit would not let it set within me. I had doubts.........therefore, I quit drinking altogether.

Romans 14:21 It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak. 22 Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.

I had to really be honest with what the Spirit was saying to me within. Drinking was not good for me, and I could not stop having that little voice of doubt within, and according to the Word, to deny that I had doubt, would have been sin for me. It was no longer faith, but sin for me. Who knows, maybe it was the Spirit telling me to watch it, or I might become entangled in alcoholism, just because I was ok to drink then, didn't necessarily mean that I would remain that way? Maybe it was the protection of the Spirit, to head off something before it did become a problem? I don't know? All I know is that I could not drink without doubting somewhere deep within, whether or not it was good for me.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Catsmeow]

Okay, here's my confusion:

Colossians 2:16-19

16 Therefore no one is to act  as your judge in regard to food  or drink  or in respect to a festival  or a new  moon or a Sabbath  day 17 things which are a  mere shadow of what is to come; but the  to Christ. 18 Let no one keep defrauding  you of your prize by delighting  in self-abasement  and the worship of the angels, taking  his stand on visions he has seen, inflated    without cause by his fleshly  mind, 19 and not holding fast to the  head, from whom the  entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments,  grows with a growth which  is from God. 

See these things confuse the heck out of me because on one hand it seems to say don't eat or drink.. or such. Then in this verse it seems to insist that we let no one to judge us regarding whether we eat or drink or observe or fail to observe tradional holidays...

Need I say that these items are very confusing to me...since they "seem" to say something different.

It leaves my head spinning...

[serotta]

I don't see any contradiction here. The verses in Romans basically say that we should decide for ourselves (with God's guidance) what we should or shouldn't do, but to also be careful not to "entice" another Christian into sin. Colossians is basically saying the same thing; decide for yourself what is wrong or right, don't let someone else dictate to you. In context, I believe the argument was about letting the Jewish priests dictate what you ate and what sabbath you observed. Does that help clarify?

[tsth]

It might help in understanding too, if you read the whole chapter of 1 Corinthians 10.

Here's a part of it:

31 So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. 32Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks the church of God,

It is symbolic in the first part of the chapter, in reference to food and drink, it is referring to Christ. Then it goes into specifics.

It is much the same of what I was "trying" to point out in my post above, about my experiences with drink.

1 Cor. 10:23 "Everything is permissible"--but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible"--but not everything is constructive. NIV

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Catsmeow]

Look, I'm may be in my forties but I'm already having "senior moments" so go easy on me ...

Some of my confusion comes from things I've read from SDA (Seventh Day Adventist) and other issues connected with eating only vegetables and worshipping only on the Sabbath/Saturdays and similar areas of confusion.

When I try to reconcile my understanding the verses seem to clash. The key word is "seem". I'm not ashamed to admit I'm confused.

I really need a book called, "The Bible for Dummies" or the "Complete Idiot's Guide to Scripture".

BTW, Suzanne, I have read 1 Corinthians 10...several times. The only thing I've learned is how much I really don't know. The more I read the more questions I have.

One church says you should NEVER have a drink alcohol; another says a little is okay; *(In fact, even Paul tells Timothy it might settle his stomach)... .

One church says Saturday only; another says Sunday is better; one say meat's okay; another says meat's okay but not pork; another says veggies only..no meat. *(Leaves my head spinning...)

Then some here say "just don't offend anyone". I say to that, "How?"

Some people are offended if a woman wears pants; some if she wears jewelry; some if she covers her head/some if she doesn't; some if she preaches or teaches; some if you eat a burger in public; another if you wear a sleeveless blouse...I mean it goes on and on and on....people have scrupples galore.

Seems like the Christian life is a mine field laced with mines and at any time one will blow up in your face.

A friend of mine is a secretary. Her supervisor was SDA. She came in from lunch with a McDonald's bag; the boss asked her what she had for lunch. She had a burger. He was immediately offended and let her know. He was SDA and they are offended by the eating of meat. This was a secular business ...and in no way connected to a church.

How far do you take it? To me, that's just crossing boundaries.

[tsth]

Look, I'm may be in my forties but I'm already having "senior moments" so go easy on me ...

Some of my confusion comes from things I've read from SDA  (Seventh Day Adventist) and other issues connected with eating only vegetables and worshipping only on the Sabbath/Saturdays and similar areas of confusion.

When I try to reconcile my understanding the verses seem to clash. The key word is "seem". I'm not ashamed to admit I'm confused.

I really need a book called, "The Bible for Dummies" or the "Complete Idiot's Guide to Scripture".

BTW, Suzanne, I have  read 1 Corinthians 10...several times. The only thing I've  learned  is how much I really don't know. The more I read the more questions I have.

One church says you should NEVER have a drink alcohol; another says a little is okay; *(In fact, even Paul tells Timothy it might settle his stomach)... .

One church says Saturday only; another says Sunday is better; one say meat's okay; another says meat's okay but not pork; another says veggies only..no meat.   *(Leaves my head spinning...)

Then some here say "just don't offend anyone". I say to that, "How?"

Some people are offended if a woman wears pants; some if she wears jewelry; some if she covers her head/some if she doesn't; some if she preaches or teaches; some if you eat a burger in public; another if you wear a sleeveless blouse...I mean it goes on and on and on....people have scrupples galore.

Seems like the Christian life is a mine field laced with mines and at any time one will blow up in your face.

A  friend of mine is a secretary. Her  supervisor was SDA. She came in from lunch with a McDonald's bag; the boss asked her what she had for lunch. She had a burger. He was immediately offended and let her know. He was SDA and they are offended  by the eating of meat. This was a secular business ...and in no way connected to a church.

How far do you take it? To me, that's just crossing boundaries.

Ya know what Cats.........I'm with you, at least for today............it's just too much for me too!

I realized that my comment:

It is much the same of what I was "trying"