Crucifixion not that bad!

[jackie d]

I can't speak for anyone else here just discussing the article and the medical aspects of the death. And I don't think anyone was trying to take away the impact or the power of Christ's sacrifice or the fact that He was in complete control.

FYI, I didn't say anyone was taking away from the impact of Christ's death. I was simply making a statement of fact.

And I see absolutely nothing wrong with making a very clear and complete description of how He died and the cruel treatment of Him.

Good, 'cause I didn't say there was anything wrong with that.

No need to assign motives to me that I did not communictate.

I'm sorry shiloh, I misunderstood your tone. Next time I'll ask for clarification....Please accept my apology.

[jackie d]

The spleen sits left in the abdominal cavity. The Lord was pierced in the side, by some accounts the left side. The major vessel were not involved, this would have brought almost instantaneous death.

Jesus was already dead when his side was pierced by the Roman Soldier's spear.

Yeah - I was thinking the same thing.

And besides the spleen is covered by the rib cage, so how would the soldier have pierced it?

those were my thoughts too...there is an article posted by ladypeartree that is a medical outline of what Christ endured on the previous page, that I think was very interesting and made a clearer picture, kind of a like forensic science stuff....it really is interesting.

But the spear in the side did not kill Him. As scripture is clear that He was dead before they brought Him down from the cross.

[Giaour]

Spoken from a man who has never actually been crucified.

[MorningGlory]

I believe the report and I believe that he said it. I am just so shocked that somebody could stoop so low ... :o

But the guy's a Marxist, which usually means an atheist. Why would anyone expect someone, who doesn't have God in his life, to be other than ignorant and blasphemous? I'm shocked by this as well...but not as shocked as the Marxist will be on that last day.

[jackie d]

I believe the report and I believe that he said it. I am just so shocked that somebody could stoop so low ... :o

But the guy's a Marxist, which usually means an atheist. Why would anyone expect someone, who doesn't have God in his life, to be other than ignorant and blasphemous? I'm shocked by this as well...but not as shocked as the Marxist will be on that last day.

heavy interdeding prayers need to go out for this poor man....I know I will be. As Christ said, "forgive them they know not what they do."

[Guest]

Crucifixion And The Wages Of My Sin

My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.

But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.

Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.

They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.

But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head saying,

He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.

But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.

I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.

Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.

Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.

They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.

I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.

My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.

For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.

They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.

Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.

Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.

I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.

Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.

For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.

My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.

The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.

All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.

For the kingdom is the LORD's: and he is the governor among the nations.

All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.

A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

Psalms 22:1-31

Full Payed By The Lamb Of God

The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world

1 John 1:36

I believe the report and I believe that he said it. I am just so shocked that somebody could stoop so low ... :o

But the guy's a Marxist, which usually means an atheist. Why would anyone expect someone, who doesn't have God in his life, to be other than ignorant and blasphemous? I'm shocked by this as well...but not as shocked as the Marxist will be on that last day.

heavy interdeding prayers need to go out for this poor man....I know I will be. As Christ said, "forgive them they know not what they do."

[David of Derby]

Spoken from a man who has never actually been crucified.

Stating the obvious here. You noticed anyone that has been crucified talking much?

[Hunterpoet]

The spleen sits left in the abdominal cavity. The Lord was pierced in the side, by some accounts the left side. The major vessel were not involved, this would have brought almost instantaneous death.

Jesus was already dead when his side was pierced by the Roman Soldier's spear.

Yeah - I was thinking the same thing.

And besides the spleen is covered by the rib cage, so how would the soldier have pierced it?

If the spleen is covered by the rib cage, how is it that it is palpable during an abdominal exam.....and what, you think a spear point could not find it's way to a person's spleen????

[nebula]

If the spleen is covered by the rib cage, how is it that it is palpable during an abdominal exam.....and what, you think a spear point could not find it's way to a person's spleen????

No reason to get upset, OK? We're just discussing anatomy.

All I know is that the pictures I have seen of the human abdominiopelvic cavity show the spleen directly to the left of the stomach and underneath the lower left end of the rib cage. I would imagine palpation being done from the inside (right side of the left rib cage and going in).

As for the spear, I just think that a pierce from the left side would be more difficult to hit the spleen, since it is the furthest left of the upper abdominal organs and against the rib cage.

But even if you are correct - does not the Scripture state that Jesus was dead before the soldier pierced His side?

And where did the water come from?

[tigger398]

I had read a verse in bible and I'm trying to find it, but as far as I know the weight of sin killed Jesus not the cross.