Immune system & disease question

[Merin]

I have histiocytosis which was diagnosed in 2003. It is a rare disorder. They know very little about it. I have been save and loving Jesus for 30 yrs. You think I have unconfessed sin in my life?

lol

[Merin]

So God punishes man for the sins of others? He punishes us just because others have messed up? Doesn't sound very loving to me.

you never messed up before?

[Guest shinsukato]

I usually hear one of two arguments when it comes to the presence of disease (as well as poverty, starvation, genocides etc.) in the world.

1) If it were not for such tests, humans would be weak and lazy. If nothing ever went wrong then we would just generally be a pretty crappy race.

I tend to disagree with this kind of thinking because it is destructive. Under this logic, we should NOT be trying to fix our world. We should just let diseases run rampant, let the Africans starve to death, and keep maniacal sadists in power all for the purpose of bettering ourselves in some invisible way. I suppose you could call it 'building character' for the entire species.

2) It is the result of the original sin. Humans have given up their easy-going life in the garden and have 'chosen' to live a harsh, cruel life. I also have to reject this line of thought, because it is defeatist. Thinking like this, then even if we tried to fix things they would not get any better because it is a punishment from God that we suffer so and all of our efforts would be futile.

While I may believe that harmful pathogens are just a separate species whose survival depends on our downfall, that line of thinking requires a belief in some form of evolution which most creationists will not admit to. If there are any other reasonings believers have to offer, I'd like to hear them.

Edited May 4, 2008 by shinsukato

[Guest uoflcard]

I usually hear one of two arguments when it comes to the presence of disease (as well as poverty, starvation, genocides etc.) in the world.

1) If it were not for such tests, humans would be weak and lazy. If nothing ever went wrong then we would just generally be a pretty crappy race.

I tend to disagree with this kind of thinking because it is destructive. Under this logic, we should NOT be trying to fix our world. We should just let diseases run rampant, let the Africans starve to death, and keep maniacal sadists in power all for the purpose of bettering ourselves in some invisible way. I suppose you could call it 'building character' for the entire species.

2) It is the result of the original sin. Humans have given up their easy-going life in the garden and have 'chosen' to live a harsh, cruel life. I also have to reject this line of thought, because it is defeatist. Thinking like this, then even if we tried to fix things they would not get any better because it is a punishment from God that we suffer so and all of our efforts would be futile.

While I may believe that harmful pathogens are just a separate species whose survival depends on our downfall, that line of thinking requires a belief in some form of evolution which most creationists will not admit to. If there are any other reasonings believers have to offer, I'd like to hear them.

I also disagree w/ #1, although not for the same reason you do (which I don't understand)

Your interpretation of #2 is confusing. It does not mean we can't improve our situation. If our actions were completely pointless, why would God (and Jesus) give commands regarding harvests and other activities of the natural world of humans? But we certainly CAN'T save ourselves completely...do you believe we will one day develop the ability to live forever scientifically? To me, this is what salvation through Jesus is all about. Not necessarily physically being alive forever, but being able to spiritually live with God eternally, instead of separate from God, which is Hell.

Also, I'm a Christian and believe in common descent through evolution. I don't believe a "blind" evolutionary process of mutation and selection even comes close to accounting for what we know exists in nature. When Darwin thought that process was all there was, he thought the cell was just a simple block of organic matter...nope, sorry, a single cell is significantly more complicated (and tuned) than the macro systems of the body. I don't think the Bible comments specifically on how we were created. I don't think it says something like "we were created out of nowhere" or God molded clay and dust to form Adam and Eve. I believe He created the rest of life through evolution, and then He created man through the same process, but "in His image". We are clearly different from every other animal on Earth when it comes to morals and civilization, as well as temptations of sin. Other animals rape, but it is not sin because they don't have morals - it is not wrong. But if you believe we are "just another animal", then you have 2 options that I can see, and neither make a lot of sense (or maybe more appropriately, the evidence doesn't point to either one):

1) All animals have morals...Zero evidence of that, and also how far back does that go? Do crabs have morals? Ants? Microbes?

2) We don't have morals - there is no objective right/wrong....if you look out your window and see an 8-year-old girl getting raped in an alley, do you honestly think you could convince yourself at that moment (or any other) that that is not objectively wrong, and that the deep feelings of disgust and anger you feel are just "social constructs"?

read Habakkuk in the Old Testament. Horrible things have been happening to God's people, and we never understand God's ways. That is not what is important for us. We cannot understand God completely. But we aren't called to. We are called to live by faith

Edited October 27, 2008 by uoflcard