Islam, Father of Violence, Understands It.

[Arthur Durnan]

Ah, my points exactly! I suppose that one could also revert to the ancient Vikings - which is not the issue at hand. The current geopolitical FACT stands tall: ISLAM, the brainchild of one, Muhammad of Yathrib, is the present worldwide INSTIGATOR of suppression, terrorism and murder and ALL PERFORMED IN THE NAME OF Muhammad and his self-concocted philosophy as evidenced by his very precise declarations re all "infidels" and "renegades." The "Crusaders" you mention were kidnappers, rapists & murderers and condemned here outright. Naziism too is wholly condemned. What is your jaundiced point? That because Hitler lived and killed people, so too should Islam be permitted the same heinous "privilege"?

The subject at hand is one, camel caravan-herder Muhammad of Yathrib, and his hellish declarations - words from his very own mouth yet! - to plunder, rob, and assassinate all non-Muslims in the name of the sun-god of the Arabian Pensinsula, Allah. It's especially intriguing that the compatriots of Muhammad are quite anxious to overlook his precise declarations, words carved in history's granite which cannot be erased, only "played around with."

Islam is today worldwide as it has always been: The Religion Of The Sword," nothing less, nothing other. And all in the bloodied name of its founder. Be absolutely certain to peruse Mark Gabriel, PhD's illuminating volume, "ISLAM AND TERRORISM." Al-Azhar University in Cairo.

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[Guest Katatonic Bliss]

Peace Arthur,

Since you like to try and prove that Islam is a violent religion, I wish to repeat my question. Can you give me battles that are NOTED IN HISTORY that depicts Muslim armies pillaging, burning, forcing people at swordpoint to convert and using violence?

Since you are so interested in religion and violence, I will give you a link that depicts torture devices used by the Inquisition. You know, that little event in history when the Church wanted death to the heretics. Here is what a Heretic recieved - often without a trial or even a chance to defend himself:

WARNING: not for the faint at heart.

http://www.dimensional.com/~randl/racking.htm

here's some bible verses that you can compare with Qur'anic verses on war. You tell me which is worse:

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city

and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no

pity! Kill them all

[Guest Katatonic Bliss]

in the name of the sun-god of the Arabian Pensinsula, Allah.

So now it's a sun god is it? I thought it was a moon god! make up your minds about what I'm praying to, since you all are such experts on my religion.

[Cerran]

I have a question for you then, Arabic speaking christians pray to Allah, who are they praying to?

Naziism too is wholly condemned. What is your jaundiced point? That because Hitler lived and killed people, so too should Islam be permitted the same heinous "privilege"?

My point was that grouping all of one religion with the acts of a relatively few people is downright dumb. A terrorist is a terrorist, no matter which religion he claims. Why aren't you preaching against the KKK as well if you are so determined to preach against terrorism?

Edited May 10, 2004 by Cerran

[Guest Katatonic Bliss]

Peace Cerran,

A reading from Genesis:

[Genesis 1:1 - English Bible - King James Version]

"In the beginning God created

the Heaven and the Earth . . . "

[Genesis 1:1 - Arabic transliteration]

"Fee al-badi' khalaqa Allahu

as-Samaawaat wa al-Ard . . . "

Same God as Moses. Arabic Christians are still Christians. They also use the word Allah for God. I'll bet you that if you ever meet an Arabic Christian who speaks English, they will use the word Allah instead of the word God.

So in retrospect, Christians call God 'Allah' as well!

Peace,

~KB

[Arthur Durnan]

Not a problem. ALLAH, the sun god of the Arabian Peninsula. ALLAT, the moon goddess. Father Abraham saw the light, of course, and worshipped Elohim. Muhammad of Yathrib came on the scene much too late. He missed by hundreds of years the clear proclamation of Gabriel re the world's true Lord and Saviour, unless, of course, we (like Muhammad) make Gabriel to contradict himself. Is that a mea culpa in your pocket?

Vikingism, Crusaderism, Naziism, etc. are very poor and decrepid reasons for your seeking to excuse & gloss over the bloodied history - and current affairs - of the compatriots of one, Muhammad of Yathrib, and his crazed declarations of war & devastation re all "infidels" and "renegades." And you cannot bring him back to allow him to alter his own frenzied shouts. What he has spoken, he has spoken....and his (anonymous) followers are solidly stuck with him. Not a pretty picture.

I have no intention whatever of repeating Islam's record of genocide, anti-Semitism and unlimited murder. If you've forgotten - or care to overlook - its warfaring history, then, of course, that's your shortcoming. Again, look around and note that the long list of homicide-bombings today world-wide are not conducted by followers of Siddhautha Gautama, nor by the Salvation Army, but by the deceptive compatriots of the polygamous founder of Islam, one Muhammad of Yathrib. No Muslims. No Terrorism. And where might anti-Semitism reign suppreme today? Try Iran, or Saudi Arabia, or Libya, or Syria, or Somalia, or the Sudan, etc.......and kindly take care to note the religious affiliation of all those dictatorial regimes. Say it isn't so....they follow the Qur'an yet! I suggest you cool your jets.

Islam: "peace-loving, equality-seeking, tolerant" if in the MINORITY position. But suppressive, offensive and murderous in any MAJORITY position. To beny reality is to bleat in with a very self-serving irrelevancy, which one would do quite well to make it a fastidious point to ignore. A tin-ear approach to socio-politics doesn't stand you in good stead.

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[Guest Katatonic Bliss]

Peace Arthur,

Not a problem. ALLAH, the sun god of the Arabian Peninsula. ALLAT, the moon goddess. Father Abraham saw the light, of course, and worshipped Elohim. Muhammad of Yathrib came on the scene much too late. He missed by hundreds of years the clear proclamation of Gabriel re the world's true Lord and Saviour, unless, of course, we (like Muhammad) make Gabriel to contradict himself. Is that a mea culpa in your pocket?

Are you sure it's the sun god? You stated in your opening post that Allah is a MOON god. So, now we have two contradicting theories, but the Muslim here still says that Allah is the God of Abraham, Moses, and even Jesus. As I have just proved, 'Allah' is the word used in CHRISTIAN BIBLES in the Middle East. These Christians are COPTIC. This means their families have been Christian for AGES. Now, if Islam is so violent, why are there still so many COPTIC CHRISTIANS living in and around the area where Muhammad recieved revelations? Muhammad's neighbor was Jewish. Muhammad never killed him nor did he tell anyone else to kill him. Muhammad visited him when he was sick and never refused a favor. During his prophethood, Muhammad lived a simple life and never once saw or ate bread made from fine flour. Might I also ask how Gabriel - or Muhammad - contradicts themselves? Since we're discussing it... I challenge you to find one, just ONE error in the Qur'an. If you need a Qur'an, PM me and I'll hook you up with a free copy.

Vikingism, Crusaderism, Naziism, etc. are very poor and decrepid reasons for your seeking to excuse & gloss over the bloodied history - and current affairs - of the compatriots of one, Muhammad of Yathrib, and his crazed declarations of war & devastation re all "infidels" and "renegades." And you cannot bring him back to allow him to alter his own frenzied shouts. What he has spoken, he has spoken....and his (anonymous) followers are solidly stuck with him. Not a pretty picture.

Ok, so let me get this straight: Notable events that can be listed off the top of anyone's head about Christianity have no relevance or magnitude towards these 'Islamic wars' you talk about while your only reference to them is ONE AUTHOR and your only date is '13th century.' I can pick out Christian MASSACRES that actually happened. I can give you dates, links, pictures, detailed descriptions, names, and outcomes. All you ever give me is 'Islamic hordes did this and this and this and Islam is evil because of what's happening in the Middle East.' Brilliant. The Zionists are also using Suicide bombers. Why not go write some propaganda about how the Jews are evil?

I want quotes from noted historians that support your claims. I have given you nothing but the truth backed with reference. You give me rhetoric. no wonder a couple of Christians are siding with me.

I have no intention whatever of repeating Islam's record of genocide, anti-Semitism and unlimited murder. If you've forgotten - or care to overlook - its warfaring history, then, of course, that's your shortcoming.

You never stated it in the first place... I've been asking for it for quite a while. How can someone 'forget or overlook' something that never took place? Is such arrogance actually allowed in Christianity?

Again, look around and note that the long list of homicide-bombings today world-wide are not conducted by followers of Siddhautha Gautama, nor by the Salvation Army, but by the deceptive compatriots of the polygamous founder of Islam, one Muhammad of Yathrib. No Muslims. No Terrorism. And where might anti-Semitism reign suppreme today? Try Iran, or Saudi Arabia, or Libya, or Syria, or Somalia, or the Sudan, etc.......and kindly take care to note the religious affiliation of all those dictatorial regimes. Say it isn't so....they follow the Qur'an yet! I suggest you cool your jets.

Yes, let's also take in to consideration the Jewish suicide bombers. Let's also take into consideration that Islam PROHIBITS TERRORISM. Many an Islamic scholar has denounced terrorism and declared that terrorists have no home in Islam. This is coming from MUSLIMS. If you want to keep making assertions without basing them on fact, go right ahead. Nobody is stopping you. But in all honesty and sincerity, you are making a fool out of yourself. my 'jets' were never hot... or even warm .

Islam: "peace-loving, equality-seeking, tolerant" if in the MINORITY position. But suppressive, offensive and murderous in any MAJORITY position. To beny reality is to bleat in with a very self-serving irrelevancy, which one would do quite well to make it a fastidious point to ignore. A tin-ear approach to socio-politics doesn't stand you in good stead.

islam's root word is peace. Women gained rights under Islamic law far before women in european countries ever did. Islam preaches tolerance. Like I stated before, Muhammad's next door neighbor was Jewish. Please, stop trying to prove a false point. It does nothing to me, or to you.

Peace and Blessings,

~KB

Edited May 10, 2004 by Katatonic Bliss

[Guest Katatonic Bliss]

Peace Arthur,

It amuses me that you actually contradict yourself. In your opening post, you said this:

Explicit trust in the Lord God (who is certainly NOT "Allah", the Arab's early moon god);

However, you tried to counter me with this:

ALLAH, the sun god of the Arabian Peninsula

So I will ask you again: Please make up your mind on whether I pray to a sun god or a moon god since you are just stunningly knowledgeable about my own religion.

Peace,

~KB

[Cerran]

Actually Katatonic my question about who they were praying to was directed to Arthur as he seems bent on saying the word Allah does not mean the same thing in arabic that God does in english. You can't have it both ways, either it means God or it doesn't.

Edited May 10, 2004 by Cerran

[Guest Katatonic Bliss]

Ah well, still. Good to have that reading from Genesis... :sweating:

Peace

~KB