Can the coming of the Lord be sped up?

[Fraught]

Erich... I am sorry...I just coud not remember the name and if I could not remember at least i could find a attribute so he would know to whom I refer....

That verse Suzanne has always been on my mind. Even with his apostles he got upset over their lack of faith.

Theer is no sense of timing outside of this place at all, and musically spesking also in the heavens there is no time either to music I have heard. It is hard to explain but even though , God still took the time to measure things out for us in certain places, that we may understand...thats a wonderful dad!

wow, our minds cannot even comprehend what that might be like. 'the things that God has prepared for us'. wow!

[Guest Biblicist]

Maranatha!

[Ddavid from NC]

Maranatha!

Maranatha...come quickly Lord. If we have the heart for the Lord and for the task at hand. Should we say Lord tarry a little longer, there is still much work to be done? Like Abraham's plead for Sodom & Gomorrah?

[Guest]

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Romans 10:13)

Maranatha!

Maranatha...come quickly Lord. If we have the heart for the Lord and for the task at hand. Should we say Lord tarry a little longer, there is still much work to be done? Like Abraham's plead for Sodom & Gomorrah?

Yes And Amen!

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." (Matthew 24:14)

Maranatha!

"He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus." (Revelation 22:20)

Even So Come Quickly Lord Jesus, Come Quickly!

[Reuben Hick]

looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 2 Peter 3:12NKJV

It seems by reading this verse that the God's timing can be hastened or stalled. What do you interpret from this verse?

Yes, a plain reading of this passage could allow the uninformed reader to assume that we can alter God's timetable. But we all know better than that because we know that God does everything by His own Pleasure and in His own time.

A little foray into speculative theology...

For instance, we read in Rev 12:1-6 "Now a great sign appeared in heavens: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. The being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth... she bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child ws caught up to God and His throne..."

This can only be the birth of the Messiah. For the sake of argument lets stipulate that "great sign in heaven" was an astronomical phenomina. If this was the case, the appropriate constellation would be Virgo, and the twelve stars would be the crown over the constelation's "head". At the time of Christ's birth, Jupiter, the planet recognized by both the Romans and the Jews as the "Planet of the Messiah" was located in Virgo's "womb" and standing still. The "clothing" is an annual event lasting around 20 days where Virgo is superimposed by the Sun. The key is the moon, which the apostle says was located under her feet. The year 3BC all of these factors came together for less than two hours on September 11th between 6:15pm and 7:45pm local time. As an added bonus, Sundown on September 11, 3BC was the beginning of Tishri 1 in the Jewish calendar - Rosh Hashanah, the Day of Trumpets. The stars were set into motion on day four of the Creation Week. Now tell me that God doesn't have events planned down to the mere hour.

The margin notes of this hastening are such: "hasting the coming", (Greek: speudoo) means to urge on, to hasten; and then to hasten after anything, to await with eager desire. The state of mind which is indicated by the word is that when we are anxiously desirous that anything should occur, and when we would hasten or accelerate it if we could. Since we can't the context is such where Peter is saying we don't dread the coming of our LORD, rather we look forward to it.

Curiously, on Glenn Beck's TV program where he interviewed the authors of "Left Behind" he eventually put forth the point-blank question asking both of them individually if they looked forward to Christ's return in their lifetime. LaHaye admitted that he is getting up in the years and the prospect is not so great that he would experience it himself. Jenkins answer was refreshingly honest yet dead wrong. He said that he didn't want the Lord to return anytime soon (hopefully for unselfish reasons), because Jerry wanted the Lord to tarry giving every man the opportunity to exercise his free will and be saved.

Under this theory, which is consistent with Free Will Theology, every Free Will Apologist should want to put off our LORD's return for as long as possible if the Free Will Religionist truly loves his neighbor and truly wants to see each man saved. 2 Peter 3:12 has it exactly the opposite, we have Peter exhorting his readers to deeply desire an early return of Christ, the earlier the better. IOW, Peter, if he was with these three men during the filming of the show, would have jumped across the table and shook Jenkins and yelled - What is wrong with you, man?

The orthodox view is that God has known and numbered His Elect in eternity past when He was considering who he would grace with His mercy and include into the Book of Life. What this means is that the number of those who will be with Christ are finite. It is not open ended as if God keeps the polls open, people will continue to wander on in and continue to vote for His salvation.

Now the gathering of the elect is likened to a harvest where the wheat and tares are separated by God's angels. It is also likened to separating of the sheep from the goats. Once the harvest has been accomplished, there is no need to stand around and watch the empty field and pastures. Likewise, once the last of the Elect of God's comes to repentance, there is no practical need to continue on with this world as we know it. If the fields are ripe for the harvest, tarrying doesn't improve the crop. One could wait forever and the tare will not transform into wheat, the goat will not transmogrify into a sheep. Once the last of the Elect has been regenerated and has then repented, its the End. How much more sin is truly necessary before God is justified in bringing forth Judgment?

There is also significance in the fact that when queried, Jesus didn't lay down a calendar for when the events would take place, just like there was no calendar advertised regarding His birth (yet the Magi seemed to have figured it out - there is a lesson in there somewhere). Who knows if there is an astronomical event that will correspond to His returning. From the statement that no man knows the day and the hour, it would seem to argue against that kind of calculation.

Instead, our LORD describes the signs that will be seen before His return. Since lawlessness and sin are supposed to increase, exactly how is the Christian supposed to act in order to hasten our LORD's return - encourage sin and lawlessness? Most things are out of our hands. Rev 20 says for a "short period" before Christ's return we will see Satan unchained so that he may resume deceiving the world as Satan was freely doing before the apostles starting rounding up and binding the demons during the Great Commission. We are told that there will be great signs and wonders during this time. I bet. The point being, is that there are many other players in this, and those with much more invested interest in the outcome. If that day is to be manipulated, it has already been accomplished by the Alpha and Omega.

My advice, do as Peter suggests and eagerly await the coming of the LORD.

[Reuben Hick]

Not that it really adds anything to the OP, but I've often wondered about this passage and find it intriguing with regard to the Lord's return:

Luke 18:8 I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?"

In His Love,

Suzanne

Well, there should always be a remnant. I'm thinking that this statement is consistent with two previous instances of God's Judgment. In Noah's day, Noah was told to prepare an Ark with a known passenger list. It was to be chock full of critters, and the human manifest counted to only eight. Now considering that God told Noah at the very beginning who was to be aboard the Ark, and considering that among that list Noah's father was not listed, then either God never intended for Noah to include anyone but his wife and their descendant, or Noah got this message and built the Ark in fewer than five years (Noah's dad died five years before the Flood). So well over six-billion people perished during that forty day rain storm, and out of that number only eight survived.

Moving forward to the day when Lot entered into the city of Sodom in the plains of Shinar, we read that Abraham negotiated with God, but when it came right down to it, only three survived the destruction of the five cities. Notice in the narrative that Lot went out to his sons-in-laws (presumably his married daughters were there also) and they didn't believe him and so they were destroyed. Out of the huge number of people living in that area at the time, only three survived.

Well, here we are approaching the same number of people who were living on the earth as in the days of Noah - why would we expect anything different since BOTH of these events are specifically identified as similar examples as to what we should expect and what conditions precede the Judgment. Luke 18:8 fits in perfectly.

So how does this work, especially when we see one Big Box Hallelujah House after another cropping up like mushrooms after the rain?` The answer is simply, that these places must be apostate (or future versions of them are apostate) in accordance with Scripture. We are told that in the last days false teachers, denying the Lord will be rise up in response to the heightened demand of the growing number of people who cannot and will not endure sound doctrine.

Now if we quickly turn to Romans 10:17, we discover that "faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of God". It is important to note that false teachers, by definition, don't teach the true gospel. Therefore they can teach all day and all night before throngs of millions and if the true gospel is not taught (meaning the truth, all the truth, and nothing but the truth) then the divinely enacted manner of obtaining the gift of faith is not accomplished. Note the passage doesn't say "faith comes by watching a movie or hearing a feel-good sermonette". Likewise, you can have the best jamming band in all of the universe, you can have people swaying, praying and throwing beach balls for Jesus yet since it isn't the gospel preached, it won't bring faith. Spurious conversions possibly, but not saving faith.

Now death happens. As those who are old school and came to Christ through their fire and brimstone preacher die off and the legacy of sound biblical doctrine is no longer sought after by succeeding generations, then it follows that not only the raw numbers, but the density of believers will diminish. As fewer people know the true God but know some vanity religion that doesn't save, then they don't have a legacy to pass on. As seminaries focus on institutional management, directed growth and community outreach rather than understanding hermeneutics, sermon planning and original language mastery, there will be fewer opportunities for anyone to hear the gospel faithfully preached. Instead, we will get these packaged humorous anecdotes, self-help motivational speeches, and helpful hints on how to negotiate with God for toys, benefits and temporal goodies. None of these bring faith.

Some post-millennialists are looking forward to a revival. I would love to see a revival, but the underlying foundation isn't there. I can easily count the number of great theologians of the previous generation, and now I see the greats of our generation approaching retirement. I have watched great men of God go home, people like S Lewis Johnson, Dr. James Boice, John Gerstner. I'm watching men like Sproul and MacArthur age with no one really following in their footsteps. There are no brilliant and inspiring men of God with that kind of notoriety waiting in the wings like every generation before us has had. The seminaries aren't cranking out knowledgable men of God in quantities that would support any form of revival. The environment for open expression of faith is no longer around. In short, pseudo-Christian activities are somewhat acceptable, but try talking about Calvinism, Sin or God's Judgment and watch the long knives come out. The only religion is the Plush Toy Genie Jesus religion where God is everyone's cosmic butler and economic/emotional safety-net.

The saints are going home, instead we get folks like Joel Osteen, Rick Warren and Jeremiah Wright. (sigh)

Yep, when He returns, will He still find the faith? I think the rhetorical question has a sobering answer.

[tsth]

Not that it really adds anything to the OP, but I've often wondered about this passage and find it intriguing with regard to the Lord's return:

Luke 18:8 I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?"

In His Love,

Suzanne

Well, there should always be a remnant. I'm thinking that this statement is consistent with two previous instances of God's Judgment. In Noah's day, Noah was told to prepare an Ark with a known passenger list. It was to be chock full of critters, and the human manifest counted to only eight. Now considering that God told Noah at the very beginning who was to be aboard the Ark, and considering that among that list Noah's father was not listed, then either God never intended for Noah to include anyone but his wife and their descendant, or Noah got this message and built the Ark in fewer than five years (Noah's dad died five years before the Flood). So well over six-billion people perished during that forty day rain storm, and out of that number only eight survived.

Moving forward to the day when Lot entered into the city of Sodom in the plains of Shinar, we read that Abraham negotiated with God, but when it came right down to it, only three survived the destruction of the five cities. Notice in the narrative that Lot went out to his sons-in-laws (presumably his married daughters were there also) and they didn't believe him and so they were destroyed. Out of the huge number of people living in that area at the time, only three survived.

Well, here we are approaching the same number of people who were living on the earth as in the days of Noah - why would we expect anything different since BOTH of these events are specifically identified as similar examples as to what we should expect and what conditions precede the Judgment. Luke 18:8 fits in perfectly.

So how does this work, especially when we see one Big Box Hallelujah House after another cropping up like mushrooms after the rain?` The answer is simply, that these places must be apostate (or future versions of them are apostate) in accordance with Scripture. We are told that in the last days false teachers, denying the Lord will be rise up in response to the heightened demand of the growing number of people who cannot and will not endure sound doctrine.

Now if we quickly turn to Romans 10:17, we discover that "faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of God". It is important to note that false teachers, by definition, don't teach the true gospel. Therefore they can teach all day and all night before throngs of millions and if the true gospel is not taught (meaning the truth, all the truth, and nothing but the truth) then the divinely enacted manner of obtaining the gift of faith is not accomplished. Note the passage doesn't say "faith comes by watching a movie or hearing a feel-good sermonette". Likewise, you can have the best jamming band in all of the universe, you can have people swaying, praying and throwing beach balls for Jesus yet since it isn't the gospel preached, it won't bring faith. Spurious conversions possibly, but not saving faith.

Now death happens. As those who are old school and came to Christ through their fire and brimstone preacher die off and the legacy of sound biblical doctrine is no longer sought after by succeeding generations, then it follows that not only the raw numbers, but the density of believers will diminish. As fewer people know the true God but know some vanity religion that doesn't save, then they don't have a legacy to pass on. As seminaries focus on institutional management, directed growth and community outreach rather than understanding hermeneutics, sermon planning and original language mastery, there will be fewer opportunities for anyone to hear the gospel faithfully preached. Instead, we will get these packaged humorous anecdotes, self-help motivational speeches, and helpful hints on how to negotiate with God for toys, benefits and temporal goodies. None of these bring faith.

Some post-millennialists are looking forward to a revival. I would love to see a revival, but the underlying foundation isn't there. I can easily count the number of great theologians of the previous generation, and now I see the greats of our generation approaching retirement. I have watched great men of God go home, people like S Lewis Johnson, Dr. James Boice, John Gerstner. I'm watching men like Sproul and MacArthur age with no one really following in their footsteps. There are no brilliant and inspiring men of God with that kind of notoriety waiting in the wings like every generation before us has had. The seminaries aren't cranking out knowledgable men of God in quantities that would support any form of revival. The environment for open expression of faith is no longer around. In short, pseudo-Christian activities are somewhat acceptable, but try talking about Calvinism, Sin or God's Judgment and watch the long knives come out. The only religion is the Plush Toy Genie Jesus religion where God is everyone's cosmic butler and economic/emotional safety-net.

The saints are going home, instead we get folks like Joel Osteen, Rick Warren and Jeremiah Wright. (sigh)

Yep, when He returns, will He still find the faith? I think the rhetorical question has a sobering answer.

Hi Reuben,

Just wondering.......did you happen to read my post #18? You'd see that I was also referring to the actions of one in Isaiah 63 and 64, of "calling out for God to come". It is one who believed/had faith....So yes, I believe He will find faith when He returns, and it will look much like the one who is speaking in those passages.

Oh, and I very much agree with your post above! Especially the last paragraph. It is troubling, to say the least.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Openly Curious]

looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 2 Peter 3:12NKJV

It seems by reading this verse that the God's timing can be hastened or stalled. What do you interpret from this verse?

I do not believe not one bit that we can do one thing to stop God from bringing his will to pass and those who are accepting this type of mindset is in for a big surprise.

1 Corinthians 1:7--"And our hope of you is steadfast, knowing, that as you are "partakers of the suffering," so shall ye be also of the consolation.

Titus 2:13--"Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ"

Psalm 50:3--"Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence a fire shall devour before Him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Isaiah 34:4--"And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be dissolved, and the heaveans shall be rolled together as a scroll and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree

Micah 1:4--"And the mountains shall be molten under him, and the valleys shall be cleft, as wax before the fire, and as the waters that are poured down a steep place"

I hope the scriptures above will bless you.

OC

[7thseal]

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." (Matthew 24:14)

Maranatha!

Amen.

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Our brothers and sisters in Christ face increasing persecution every day, but its only for a little season compared with eternity.

[Openly Curious]

looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 2 Peter 3:12NKJV

It seems by reading this verse that the God's timing can be hastened or stalled.

Hi, Ddavid from NC

I noticed in your comments that while you were reading 2 Peter 3:12 that God's timing can defiantly be hastened. Which that would mean that we could swiftly speed up the wrath of God. So then that makes me ask you the question of, How can we hasten the heavens being destroyed just how are we to speed it up?

Then you say at the end of you sentence not only do we have the ability to speed up the heavens being destroyed but we have the ability to stall the heavens from being destroyed. It can be speed up (Hastened) or (Stalled) I would like to see your scripture references that backs up that we as Christians have these abilities.

OC