Guest LadyC Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 from "new naves topical bible": APOSTASY. Described, Deut. 13:13; Heb. 3:12. Caused by persecution, Matt. 24:9, 10; Luke 8:13; by worldliness, 2 Tim. 4:10. Guilt and punishment of, Zeph. 1:4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFP Posted March 23, 2008 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 25 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 732 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 91 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/31/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/24/1969 Share Posted March 23, 2008 You know... I could feel a loving understanding in your response. So, is it like the prodical son? He believed but left and the father allowed him back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ateam Posted March 23, 2008 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 22 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/08/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted March 23, 2008 Appearently believers can. Especially kids who grow up with nut cases that have software that teaches you to live and talk like christ. No matter where you are at with the Lord, you still have that personal choice. And if you feel abandoned, it is humanly possible to leave the Christ you have been 'taught' about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFP Posted March 23, 2008 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 25 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 732 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 91 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/31/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/24/1969 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Appearently believers can. Especially kids who grow up with nut cases that have software that teaches you to live and talk like christ. No matter where you are at with the Lord, you still have that personal choice. And if you feel abandoned, it is humanly possible to leave the Christ you have been 'taught' about. But I still don't think He leaves you....although at times it feels like He does...I think it is kind of a way of "working out your own salvation" to many of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFP Posted March 23, 2008 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 25 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 732 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 91 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/31/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/24/1969 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Okay, imagine you are a sheep...you know which flock you belong to and you know the sheppard. You've been branded. But one day you decide that the grass looks greener on the other side of the fence, and the other sheep look more fun to play with...so you go over there. The sheppard knows you are missing...he looks for you day in and day out. He is waiting for you to come back to him. Shearing time comes...the other farmer see the brand of the farm next door and cannot keep you...he has to send you back eventually and your sheppard is waiting for you because you WEAR His brand! Not only that, you are beginning to realize that it wasn't as much fun on the other side as it seems, so you go happily and from that point on are happy to stay on the right side of the fence. The point is that the good shepperd does not let his sheep stray too far, but he may allow them to stray far enough to teach them a lesson. Some of us need bigger lessons than others to get this understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted March 23, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted March 23, 2008 Moved from Apologetics to Doctrinal Questions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~ angelique ~~ Posted March 23, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 85 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 665 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/11/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/24/1968 Author Share Posted March 23, 2008 Appearently believers can. Especially kids who grow up with nut cases that have software that teaches you to live and talk like christ. No matter where you are at with the Lord, you still have that personal choice. And if you feel abandoned, it is humanly possible to leave the Christ you have been 'taught' about. Hi Ateam It would seem that being "taught" about something and "knowing something personally" are two different things. Is the difference between the prodical son and de-conversion that is apostasy "did they really know God?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopper Posted March 23, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 424 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 57 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/09/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted March 23, 2008 (edited) I saw this response in the Atheist thread: See, what you don't know about me and the majority of atheists and agnostics is we've already been down the christianity road. It's not that we've never "opened our hearts to jesus" or "asked God for guidance." Nothing has ever revealed itself to me and I lived most of my life as a christian. To me, it's very hard to continue to have faith in something that I believe now is just a myth. If it works for you, great. I wouldn't disbelieve either if there had been any proof whatsover. To me, praying to god has the same effect as praying to a brick. I discovered a very old thread with this topic but would like to revisit it. When the above poster stated, "the majority of atheists and agnostics is we've already been down the christianity road," I thought of several friends of mine. Many of which were raised in Christian homes, said they were believers, got baptised, went to church, and are now pagans, atheists, or witches. Some actually went to Christian schools and know the bible pretty good yet are now unbelievers and sceptics. Once a believer, is it possible to be un-converted from Christianity? This topic has been stuck in my head for some time. Thanks for responding Hi again, ~~angelique~~ I don't know how much you may have heard or read concerning proponents of OSAS (once saved, always saved). It can be a controversial topic for some. I am one of those who favors an understanding of Christian Scripture that teaches God is the one who primarily has made a choice ("before the creation of the world" - Ephesians 1:4) of those who will be eternally with Him - who we might sometimes term as believers or saved individuals. Sometimes this OSAS is also framed in the language of "eternal security", or a "perseverance of the saints" (often noted as the "P" in the anagram TULIP, commonly used as a summary of Calvinistic or Reformed theology). Briefly, though also at the heart of your inquiry, is another often controversial and sometimes bitterly divisive consideration pertaining to the different ways we (Christians, Atheists, and others) employ the terms believe and believers, even as the terms are variously used to mean different things within Bible. Briefly, I Edited March 23, 2008 by hopper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted March 23, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 23, 2008 Okay... I went and looked it up.... Another question then: we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. I looked up what it meant to not be soon shaken in mind or troubled in mind.... Why are people that are shaken or troubled in mind the ones who fall away? Does this have something to do with being grounded or going to church? Why does it say "as if from us"? Does that mean that some things will be said from leaders of the church that could shake people's mind???? Paul was writing to the church of the Thessalonians. He had heard that they were being taught false doctrine concerning the Seconding Coming of Christ. It appears that not only were there false teachings, but also letters written to them. This is why you read "as if from us". I'm not sure if Paul was talking about forgery or if they were believing these letters as they would believe the letters from Paul. At any point, it is a warning. We have to remember that all churches were new at that time. They did not have the New Testament as we do, so they relied on the teachings of the Apostles and their writings. When Satan would send people in with half truths, or right out lies concerning the teaching of Jesus and the Apostles, they had nothing to go back to and see if what they had been told was the truth or not. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reuben Hick Posted March 23, 2008 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 96 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/12/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted March 23, 2008 I saw this response in the Atheist thread: See, what you don't know about me and the majority of atheists and agnostics is we've already been down the christianity road. It's not that we've never "opened our hearts to jesus" or "asked God for guidance." Nothing has ever revealed itself to me and I lived most of my life as a christian. To me, it's very hard to continue to have faith in something that I believe now is just a myth. If it works for you, great. I wouldn't disbelieve either if there had been any proof whatsover. To me, praying to god has the same effect as praying to a brick. I discovered a very old thread with this topic but would like to revisit it. When the above poster stated, "the majority of atheists and agnostics is we've already been down the christianity road," I thought of several friends of mine. Many of which were raised in Christian homes, said they were believers, got baptised, went to church, and are now pagans, atheists, or witches. Some actually went to Christian schools and know the bible pretty good yet are now unbelievers and sceptics. Once a believer, is it possible to be un-converted from Christianity? This topic has been stuck in my head for some time. Thanks for responding Heb 6:4-9 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. I think this passage speaks pretty clear about the question. The answer is "No, it is impossible" God will not be shamed by their insolence. God rejects them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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