What kind of affect do you think Same-sex Marriages will have on Ameri

[tsth]

Dear Brother,

That goes back to what I posted on page 3:

Parents need to take a stand as well. After discussion with my teen daughter and hearing what kind of responses she gets from other teens; there is NO DISCERNMENT taking place. The kids do not see any problem with the act of homosexuality. They have no reason to, because the generation before them, is not saying anything about it to them. Therefore, because of the what they are witnessing as a whole, it is seemingly acceptable in society, so it is acceptable to them, because nobody is telling them, showing them scripturally what is wrong with it.

What was funny is that she was having a get together with some cousins, (a sleep-over). For some reason a day or 2 before this, I was talking to my daughter about how troubled I was over the "pregnant man" story. It led to a discussion about the strangeness we are witnessing in our times. We were discussing the impact on kids and what they are seeing. I told her that I thought it probably didn't bother them(teens) too much, because they are just growing up "of the world". It's what they are witnessing, and they are desensitizied to it. Her response was that she thought that they were bothered by it too, because it's troublesome to her, and very confusing to watch. Needless to say, after her visit with her cousins, she came to the conclusion that I may have been right...........it doesn't trouble them! She didn't like what she heard. We then talked about how important it is for parents (Christian) parents especially, to be talking to their children about being able to distinguish what is right and wrong behavior according to God and His Word. If we don't speak and teach from the Word, then they lose it all. They have lost it. They are another generation who knew not the Lord!

Hebrews 3:7 So, as the Holy Spirit says: "Today, if you hear his voice, 8 do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion, during the time of testing in the desert, 9 where your fathers tested and tried me and for forty years saw what I did. 10 That is why I was angry with that generation, and I said, 'Their hearts are always going astray, and they have not known my ways.'

In His Love,

Suzanne

In case you missed it.

It is SO IMPORTANT, parents!

In His Love,

Suzanne

[nebula]

I have been avoiding this debate because I don't see it going anywhere beyond where the debate has gone every other time it has been debated on the Board.

However, seeing that it is still dragging on, I got curious and took a peak at some of the posts.

What I wonder about this debate among Christians is this:

1. Is it a matter of how you interpret the Scripture (is homosexuality an abomination to God, and does He punish nations for practicing/allowing this sin)?

or

2. Is it a matter of not taking the word serious that the Lord regards this as an abomination, a stench in His nostrils, and/or that He does and will punish nations for this practice?

[Smalcald]

I know what you mean Cobalt.

I am more just thinking out loud on this. Why does this 3% have such an impact? What is society looking for that they go so nuts over this one little group of perverts? I say that word seriously, that is what gayness is a simple perversion like any other sexual perversion. We need to be open and clear about what is obvious, two men don't go together nor do two women; we can be society

[nebula]

I have noticed the same thing. I do wonder though maybe we should really really focus our energies, time, and money on protecting our kids and creating a truly Christian environment for them. I don't know if we will make any progress in the secular world, but we can make great progress with excellent Christian youth programs, Christian Schools, and Christian colleges. How many Christian schools do we have that we can send our kids to? To me this would be more effective than trying to re-shape public education or the culture itself.

Well, we can start be being aggressive in training our children in church?

Teach them about holiness.

Teach them about how the Lord dealt with Israel and the nations as described in the Old Testament (how many churches actually teach their children the stories in Judges, Kings and Chronicles? I know I had to learn these on my own . . . thanks to a children's Bible in comic book form).

Teach them the fear of the Lord.

Teach them about what the Lord considers to be sin.

Stuff like that.

[eric]

I agree Neb. Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom...Ps111:10.

The kids of today are not told of the consequences of sin. There are church leaders out there that are saying there are alternatives to reach heaven than Through Jesus. The secular media is demoting christianity and are generally supporting the the idea of same sex partnership as trendy. Sodomy is dangerous from a std point of view. I have heard of cases of a woman getting aids because her husband was bisexual and was infected by sleeping with another male. And this what they are not teaching students at school.

[OneLight]

It is also sad that they are not teaching this is some churches. If the church fails to teach this as sin, then it is not brought home. If it is not brought home, then it is forgotten and sin abounds.

[stacey c]

I just read through this thread for the first time and all I can say is SHAME ON THE CHURch. We as the church in general have had our head in the sand too long when it comes to sin. What was expected to happen in a world that is contolled by the enemy? For generation after generation we have allowed sin to run rampant in our society uncheked then we want to act indignant when it comes to this extreme. We are called to be the light of the world. Well for the last several decades we have hid our light in the four walls of a building and hid from the truth of what was going on outside of those walls. We are supposed to pray for our nations and leaders but all I have ever seen was the church complaing about what was going on but not putting the energy forth to pray and see changes happen. I am not saying this is in every church, but it is in the majority. It is about time for the church to "come out of the closet" and let their light be seen in this dark world.

[Reuben Hick]

Do you think Same-sex Marriages will have a positive or a negative impact on America ? IF negative, what types of negative impacts do you forsee?

The gay agenda is only one of many things that will bring the wrath of God or the lack of the protection of God to America.

Cool. I'm compiling a list of those things.

I have Lev 18 saying sexual sins will cause the land to vomit a nation out.

Also have Ge 12:3 "I will bless this who bless you, and I will curse him who curses you".

Then I guess we can look at what brought God's Wrath against Sodom and I see in Eze 16:49-50 Pride, abundance of idleness, abandonment of the poor, haughty and committed abominations. I guess we can then see what God considers abominations and expand that list.

What other sins will bring God's Wrath on the US? (and the Scriptural support).

And how many righteous men will avert or delay this wrath? (I though God loved everybody - what's up with this wrath business?)

The word "wrath" always means "anger and punishment" in the bible when it comes to God.

Over and over in the bible God has punished His people for their disobedience and when He did was it because they were all disobedient. No! It was because the nation as a whole was disobedient.

They laws this country has passed like legal murder or abortion, gambling, putting a congressman in office who would,t take his oath using a bible but used a Karon instead. Or ending our support for Israel will bring the wrath of God upon us. The fact of the matter is that 911 was a clear warning from God. When God became angry at Israel He simply lifted the hedge of protection He had around them and let the enemy come in. Which is exactly what happened to New York.

Where do you come up with that Bravo Sierra? First of all, it is really bad theology. Here you speak erroneously of God's use of the broad sword rather than a scapel. Later in your post you are specific about that error.

(1) Did Noah drown with the antediluvians or was he saved out of it from God?

(2) Did Lot get consumed by the fire from heaven or was he spared from it by God?

(3) When the Angel of Death swept through Egypt killing the first born males, were God's chosen people also afflicted?

(4) Was Jeremiah hauled off in captivity or was he set free when then wicked Israelites fell to Babylon?

(5) Was Daniel and the others whipped into slavery or were they, like Joseph, moved to positions of power and authority?

(6) Does your eschatology teach that God's people will be Judged along with the reprobate during the Tribulation?

Since God's people (the righteous) were removed from God's judgment on the wicked, where do you get the idea that today God can't tell the difference and so He punishes the righteous and the wicked alike?

IOW, there is a pattern of example in Scripture showing that God puts judgment on the guilty, not the righteous. Here you say that God indiscrimantly nukes the just and the unjust.

What does the bible say? It rains on the unjust and the just alike. There were true believers in those towers along with non believers but every body suffered and everybody received their just rewards.

You are mixing metaphors, and are twisting Mat 5:45 to mean the opposite of what Jesus taught. (Clue: rain is a good thing, if it wasn't a good thing then Elijah should have left the drought; and second, the context it was used was in the "love your enemies" teaching)

If you want to use the "bad things happen to good people" philosophy, go to something a whole lot more relevant like Luke 13:4-5 which teaches more on the general problems of the curse.

I think it is a gross misinterpretation and application of Scripture to say that the Covenants made with the Chosen nation of Israel are applicable to whoever you want them to apply to today. When God mentions "Chosen" and then makes a series of Covenants with that well defined group of people, it doesn't mean everybody no matter how much fun it would seem to be to reassign it.

In Hebrews we read that God chastens whom He loves (Det 8:5; Heb 12:6). Chasten does not mean stomp to death. Sodom and the antediluvians were not chastened, they were stomped out of existence. The Western nations are not God's Chosen People. That chosen people was the nation of Israel. In today's spiritual economy, the Chosen people are individuals out of every nation, and the Covenants made to these people are those that apply. (FWIW, the human invention of the 1948 Israel is not God's invention and thus isn't some reconstitution of an animal sacrifice spiritual economy)

Because the people of God are spread across the globe, God will not pick and choose nations to show wrath to. Rather He will remove His Elect on the Last Day and lay down the serious Smackdown on the remaining reprobate - just like he has done before.

I'm sick and tired of folks profaning God's judgment and holiness by confusing the curse of Adam's sin (Ro 8:22), chastening of His loved ones and the actual judgement of the wicked.

And one last thing, if God's people were exempt from evil, then no bullets from a murderer would hurt us, no rape would ever occur to a believer; during earthquakes, fires and floods Church going believers would find all of their property perfectly preserved. Under a Free Will soteriology, trusting Jesus wouldn't be just a faith thing on the afterlife, it would be a practical, observable and quantifiable comprehensive insurance policy that pays off right now. Cancer would never effect a Christian. No Christian would ever get into an collision, fall off a roof, get hit by lightning, get bit by a rattlesnake, never suffer any calamity self imposed, brought on by others, or from the hand of God.

You really need to think this stuff you are trying to sell a bit more thoroughly.

[Reuben Hick]

I have been avoiding this debate because I don't see it going anywhere beyond where the debate has gone every other time it has been debated on the Board.

However, seeing that it is still dragging on, I got curious and took a peak at some of the posts.

What I wonder about this debate among Christians is this:

1. Is it a matter of how you interpret the Scripture (is homosexuality an abomination to God, and does He punish nations for practicing/allowing this sin)?

The God of Absolutes is not a Post Modernist. There is no such thing as a PoMo Christian, its a contradiction. Given that, it isn't a matter of personal interpretation, it is a matter of it is what it is.

<tangent>

Arminian bumper sticker: "God said it, I believe it, that settles it."

Calvinist bumper sticker: "God said it, that settles it."

</tangent>

And the question you pose is loaded with the assumption that there is a direct interventionist "punishment" by God. Read Lev 18, unless you spot some sunset language in there, it still applies. It will be the land that vomits them out for those nations that tolerate sodomy, bestiality and adultery.

How hard is that to read, and what other possible interpretations can one get from that? That it is OK? That the land won't vomit them out? That God is cool with it? That the people should and can get away with tolerating it? That America is exempt because we are Americans and God has to respect that? What have I missed here?

or

2. Is it a matter of not taking the word serious that the Lord regards this as an abomination, a stench in His nostrils, and/or that He does and will punish nations for this practice?

I think that sentiment is better answered here:

Gal 6:7-9 "Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life."

I don't know why people are all geeked up and are begging to get judged indiscriminately by God. What if some of these folks repent? Do you feel that God is somewhat more just by punishing them before declaring the converts righteous?

Whatever happened to the wheat and tares parable? Doesn't have the immediate gratification that we want?

[Reuben Hick]

I just read through this thread for the first time and all I can say is SHAME ON THE CHURch. We as the church in general have had our head in the sand too long when it comes to sin. What was expected to happen in a world that is contolled by the enemy?

Sin will abound?

I don't see the cause and the effect here. The Church is the Church. The World is the World. The Church is told to be separated from the World and to be friends with the world is to be an enemy of God (Jas 4:4; 1Jn 2:15-17; 3:13). OTOH, The world is composed of sinners, and these sinners are performing their job descriptions, albeit some are overachievers, but there should be no surprise that the fruit of sin and rebellion is evil and more evil.

For generation after generation we have allowed sin to run rampant in our society uncheked then we want to act indignant when it comes to this extreme.

What do you mean "allowed sin to run rampant"? Are Christians supposed to gun down sinners the instant they sin? Lev 18 says that society needs to use the death penalty on sodomites, adulterers and those who bed down critters. Heck, the modern PoMo "church" makes them pastors, elders and sunday school teachers.

Read Romans 1. The sin and rebellion is being dealt with by God. Sodomy is a punishment for sin. If you see Sodomy, then you are seeing God's marking and judgment. What more do you want?

We are called to be the light of the world. Well for the last several decades we have hid our light in the four walls of a building and hid from the truth of what was going on outside of those walls. We are supposed to pray for our nations and leaders but all I have ever seen was the church complaing about what was going on but not putting the energy forth to pray and see changes happen. I am not saying this is in every church, but it is in the majority. It is about time for the church to "come out of the closet" and let their light be seen in this dark world.

Romans 13 says that God installs our government, so forget about crooked Diebold voting machines and the felons, the dead and illegal aliens voting to mess up the election. In the end, no one but the one that God wants installed will be installed, by God, into positions of leadership.

Yes we are to pray for them, and I don't even pretend to understand the mechanism of why, just that we are supposed to respect these morons and demons that are guiding society over the abyss - the proverbial greased skids to hell now have a JATO pack. That is a design feature.

For all you know, God is setting up the political/social landscape for His prophesized End Game. Is there a problem with that?